How much will Kodak film prices increase?

jtk · Dec 2, 2019

Adrian Bacon said:
Meh. They are a business doing this to make money, not operate a charity. As such, they should charge what the market will bear. If they can’t do that and make enough money to be a successful business that grows revenue year over year, then it’s not worth it to keep making those products and they should discontinue making and selling them. If you don’t want to pay what they want in order for them to make money, then why should you get anything at all unless they decide to be charitable about it? And if that’s the case, then we should be thanking our lucky stars that they are/have been being charitable about it, not complaining that they have to raise prices.

Prices will never be as low as they were back in the heyday of film, and frankly, I’m amazed at how many film photographers loudly complain at the prices today. Seriously, have you priced what it costs to outfit yourself with a professional digital camera system? You can buy a very nice pro-level film camera and go crazy shooting film for quite a long while and still not have spent as much money as the digital body alone costs, including the cost of processing said film. In terms of monetary dollars over time, Film is by far the least expensive form of photography to get into.

Passionate photographers that shoot digital do it for the higher detail resolution and control that's not possible with film (certainly with color)...and of course, they make more/bigger prints than they could afford if they operated a darkroom.

Price (cheaper for inkjet) doesn't drive these decisions. I've just sold my old Pentax K20D (directly rivals 35mm B&W film) and purchased a just-discontinued Samsung NX 500 (at 30MB it directly rivals 120 film in my own modest-size (e.g. 13X19) inkjet prints.

Snapshot/family/vacation price-driven photographers MOSTLY order nearly-free prints online from outfits like Adorama and they get wonderful, predictable results (prints that look like the digital files they sent)...

It's important to remember that successful businesses, such as Costco and Staples (which operate in-house photo labs) do not seek bottom-of market customers. They are aware of what happened to outfits like K-Mart and Sears.

If you're into antique cameras and out-dated film, have fun...but you're not a market for anything new.

StepheKoontz · Dec 2, 2019

Alessandro Serrao said:
Sure, cameras cost more but tell me, how much costs a new Nikon F6 (because we have to compare new to new)?

Actually we don't. A film camera from the 1970's (or the 1920's) has the same "sensor" as a brand new camera will have. With digital, to get the newest sensor, you have to buy a new camera. As far as the costs, it depends on how much you shoot.

I'm just glad there is new film being made, and we aren't dependant on old cold stored stock made 2 decades ago, can you imagine the costs if that was the case?

jim10219 · Dec 2, 2019

Stocking up on film because it's going extinct is probably a smart move. But before you go stocking up on film because it's going through a price increase, you might want to consider how much money it'll cost you to keep in frozen, and if it's worth shooting expired film.

All in all, my philosophy is that I shoot film because I enjoy the process. I don't need to buy a ton of film to enjoy the process. So as long as it doesn't jump up to something like $100 a roll, I'm fine with moderate price increases. I'll probably shoot a bit less, and have to enjoy it a bit more. And being more careful with wasting film will make me a better photographer. There's always digital if I'm concerned with costs (like if I'm doing commercial work).

StepheKoontz · Dec 2, 2019

Alessandro Serrao said:
Because I use digital for color works, and film for b&w work.

So then you shoot B&W film for sentimental reasons?

I enjoy shooting with film and I love working with vintage cameras. It inspires me to go out and shoot. I have a closet full of digital gear I use for my event photography work, I shoot film for myself. I have a Nikon D4/D800 and some pro level zooms and f1.4G primes, I don't need film gear to create images, but I choose to use it. And you don't get to tell me why I would choose to use a film camera over digital.

And of course digital has taken over most photography, in fact cell phones have taken over most casual photography. You almost never see someone with a dedicated camera anymore. I don't think anyone is delusional about this fact.

Vincent Peri · Dec 2, 2019

Well, I decided I didn't want to risk Alaris raising film prices by 25% or more, so I ordered almost $500 worth of film today. That's going to be my Christmas present.

brainmonster · Dec 2, 2019

Vincent Peri said:
Well, I decided I didn't want to risk Alaris raising film prices by 25% or more, so I ordered almost $500 worth of film today. That's going to be my Christmas present.

Congrats, I'm like rationing my current supply of film...I guess I'm poor Probably smart though and you'll save money in the long run. I feel like everyone has mamiyas and bronicas and 4x5 cameras and I'm just a cheapskate lol with my $15 Minolta and supply of Ultramax.

Sirius Glass · Dec 2, 2019

Vincent Peri said:
Well, I decided I didn't want to risk Alaris raising film prices by 25% or more, so I ordered almost $500 worth of film today. That's going to be my Christmas present.

Yes, we should all do the same thing to keep the film from the hoarders!

Prest_400 · Dec 4, 2019

Ugh, our club group order went through a couple weeks ago and I guess nothing until next year. Anyways I just shoot Ilford for B&W but it would be nice to throw some Ektar for some color later on. I always mean to rely more on digital and drop 35mm, but I love even color film and the small format rendition although I am following a hybrid workflow.

Peter Schrager said:
the writings on the wall for the camera makers. I'm seriously wondering which one of them has the inclination to re-introduce a film camera?
surely they can't have their heads buried in the sand for eternity. as the market decreases for digital due to phone cameras I'm curious as to why they can't start making new film cameras. I know there are a zillion older film cameras out there but they are getting old!

I've beneffited from it by purchasing second hand equipment at great price. An EM5 with kit lens and extras for less than $200 in an estate auction. Great all around smaller format camera that covers more than "good enough" and is 2012 tech.
Greatly amused myself when lurking around other digital forums (Olympus) where the morale is akin to the film community last decade during the digital revolution, I find it ironic.

Medium Format and 35mm "hype" P&S I think it where it would make sense to reissue some cameras. Mamiya 7 might have been some of the most sought after lately and one of the latest discontinuations but IDK if Mamiya could set up production again. In the many other cases used prices still undercut by a large margin.

warden · Dec 4, 2019

brainmonster said:
Historically, it looks like Kodak raises its film prices by 15% or so once in awhile. But it looks like they plan to increase their film prices "significantly" - 15% sounds less than "significant".

https://onfilmonly.com/price-jump-on-all-kodak-films-on-01-01-20/

I wonder if this will apply only to high-demand films? Supposedly their highest demand film is colorplus, which also happens to be their cheapest film.

Time to start hoarding film a bit before 2020 or not?

I placed an order for Kodak film and chemistry after reading this and other threads on the subject. I need the film and would have placed an order in January anyway, but it makes sense to place a larger order than planned, and sooner rather than later.

Peter Schrager · Dec 4, 2019

jim10219 said:
Stocking up on film because it's going extinct is probably a smart move. But before you go stocking up on film because it's going through a price increase, you might want to consider how much money it'll cost you to keep in frozen, and if it's worth shooting expired film.

All in all, my philosophy is that I shoot film because I enjoy the process. I don't need to buy a ton of film to enjoy the process. So as long as it doesn't jump up to something like $100 a roll, I'm fine with moderate price increases. I'll probably shoot a bit less, and have to enjoy it a bit more. And being more careful with wasting film will make me a better photographer. There's always digital if I'm concerned with costs (like if I'm doing commercial work).

Actually you're totally wrong. I bought 15,000 sheets of tri-x in the 90's. (4x5;5x7;8x10)I just finished off the last of the film. I pad at least 1/3 of what film costs now and always had film. unfortunately I sold off the 88x10 film which were 50 sheet boxes. those boxes are worth $300/box or more. And freezing it costs about $30/year in a deep freezer. Since I don't jump around from film to film for me it's worth to buy as much as I can afford.
Plus bonus is you know exactly how the film will respond as you have the same emulsion number!

B&Wpositive · Dec 6, 2019

Adrian Bacon said:
In terms of performance, they might have better auto focus and be able to shoot video, but my old EOS-1n with it's motor drive shoots 12 frames a second. A whole whopping 2 frames a second less than Canon's fastest, most expensive modern camera.

Just a quick correction for the record: the 1n HS does 6 fps, and the 1v HS 10 fps. Neither is 12, but both are plenty fast as far as I'm concerned.

zen_zanon · Dec 7, 2019

Freestyle Photo posted on Instagram prices will increase 15-30%

Yona lee · Dec 13, 2019

Went to my local camera house and was told the prices for Kodak film will likely to increase 20-40% which is crazy.

138S · Dec 13, 2019

Yona lee said:
Went to my local camera house and was told the prices for Kodak film will likely to increase 20-40% which is crazy.

You may read this to understand context.

https://www.insideimaging.com.au/2019/exclusive-kodak-up-for-sale/

If UK Kodak Pension Plan wants to sell Alaris then they have to show profits to lure potential company buyers and to increase price for Alaris, those profits are for the short term, or not, I don't know, but I feel the Alaris mess is bad for film users.

Also Fuji increased prices...

Possibly the sector required a general price increase, but if they think more in the short term than in the long term then this is not good for us.

Henning Serger · Dec 13, 2019

Hello,
I have asked Kodak Alaris Germany how much the prices will be increased. They replied the increase is in the 0 (yes 0) to 30% range. Depending on the product.
So we will probably see very differentiated price increases which differ significantly from product to product.

Best regards,
Henning

Agulliver · Dec 13, 2019

Henning Serger said:
Hello,
I have asked Kodak Alaris Germany how much the prices will be increased. They replied the increase is in the 0 (yes 0) to 30% range. Depending on the product.
So we will probably see very differentiated price increases which differ significantly from product to product.

Purely my guess work but I'd think that cheaper film products such as Color Plus will increase up to 30% while the more expensive lines including bulk products won't have such a large increase. Ultimately everything needs to make financial sense for Kodak....21% increase in film related sales while still losing millions isn't sustainable.

138S · Dec 13, 2019

Henning Serger said:
Hello,
I have asked Kodak Alaris Germany how much the prices will be increased. They replied the increase is in the 0 (yes 0) to 30% range.

If you compare the Kodak prices in the EU vs USA then it looks that in the EU price is "saturated", a Portra 160 4x5" box is $70, $7 per sheet. In the USA price (B&H) is $37, just the half.

Helge · Dec 15, 2019

I really truely hope this comes from deep consideration, planning and a genuine need.

Not some idiot execs idea of milking what he considers a fad, where “stupid hipster kids and dorks will spend whatever, to signal whatever to their peers, until they tire of it”.

Kodak, Ilford Fuji et al, are building a market and a future right now.
I really hope they plan for the long run.

They might get a cash boost now. But if the new prices (whatever they might be) are too draconian, it will make at the very least newcomers reconsider quickly if it is worth it.

Helge · Dec 15, 2019

jtk said:
Passionate photographers that shoot digital do it for the higher detail resolution and control that's not possible with film (certainly with color)...and of course, they make more/bigger prints than they could afford if they operated a darkroom.

Price (cheaper for inkjet) doesn't drive these decisions. I've just sold my old Pentax K20D (directly rivals 35mm B&W film) and purchased a just-discontinued Samsung NX 500 (at 30MB it directly rivals 120 film in my own modest-size (e.g. 13X19) inkjet prints.

Snapshot/family/vacation price-driven photographers MOSTLY order nearly-free prints online from outfits like Adorama and they get wonderful, predictable results (prints that look like the digital files they sent)...

It's important to remember that successful businesses, such as Costco and Staples (which operate in-house photo labs) do not seek bottom-of market customers. They are aware of what happened to outfits like K-Mart and Sears.

If you're into antique cameras and out-dated film, have fun...but you're not a market for anything new.

I know this is the millionth windmill fighting another, but I just can’t let this stand uncontradicted.
Sure there is grain, like there is demosaicing waxynes and edge harshness with digital (that looks like “clean” and “sharp” to the dilettante), but with even a quick, stitched camera scan, I get very satisfactory resolution out of 135 film. Enough for huge prints.
Film resolution also looks better than the cycle equivalent digital resolution.
It simply leans more into what the human visual system likes to see.
To put some hard numbers on it, it’s anywhere from 24MP equivalent to 80MP for certain aspects and lucky shots, where everything was perfect.

FujiLove · Dec 20, 2019

The email I received from Speed Graphic last week:

Kodak: the good news and the bad
Good Ektachrome E100 is now available in 120 and 4x5" formats. We may see some 120 this month, but the sheet film will not arrive until early next year. Bad All other Kodak films will increase in price on January 1st. Worldwide demand has grossly outstripped Kodak's manufacturing capacity in Rochester, so to fund investment in new plant, prices are being increased. This will range from 10-15% on black and white and Gold, to 30% on Portra and Ektar and 43% on Color Plus 200. Kodak Alaris will also take the unprecedented step of cancelling all worldwide backorders on December 31st which means that if we don't have it now it will cost us and therefore you more in January. Because of this we will remove all unavailable films from our website now when stock is exhausted and will have to cancel any unfulfilled back orders.

jtk · Dec 20, 2019

Helge said:
I know this is the millionth windmill fighting another, but I just can’t let this stand uncontradicted.
Sure there is grain, like there is demosaicing waxynes and edge harshness with digital (that looks like “clean” and “sharp” to the dilettante), but with even a quick, stitched camera scan, I get very satisfactory resolution out of 135 film. Enough for huge prints.
Film resolution also looks better than the cycle equivalent digital resolution.
It simply leans more into what the human visual system likes to see.
To put some hard numbers on it, it’s anywhere from 24MP equivalent to 80MP for certain aspects and lucky shots, where everything was perfect.

Your time may have no value, but mine is very valuable...just as it was when clients paid for it. My old Nikon scans a frame dust-freeder two minutes. We all know how that compares to stitching. I am referring to 35mm. Current half frame digital dooms medium format for (arguably) almost all serious photographers. And of course there's full frame...

Your notions of film MP are dubious at best.

Further there's the matter of detail loss due the most wonderful of camera optics, not to mention camera focus and alignment and the inherent limits of the best camera or lens stabilization.

FujiLove · Dec 20, 2019

Adrian Bacon said:
Film is by far the least expensive form of photography to get into.

I have no idea if that statement is correct, but it feels like it could be true whenever my OS gets updated and I have to shell out £200 for software that's suddenly become obsolete.

soulstar89 · Dec 20, 2019

FujiLove said:
The email I received from Speed Graphic last week:

Kodak: the good news and the bad
Good Ektachrome E100 is now available in 120 and 4x5" formats. We may see some 120 this month, but the sheet film will not arrive until early next year. Bad All other Kodak films will increase in price on January 1st. Worldwide demand has grossly outstripped Kodak's manufacturing capacity in Rochester, so to fund investment in new plant, prices are being increased. This will range from 10-15% on black and white and Gold, to 30% on Portra and Ektar and 43% on Color Plus 200. Kodak Alaris will also take the unprecedented step of cancelling all worldwide backorders on December 31st which means that if we don't have it now it will cost us and therefore you more in January. Because of this we will remove all unavailable films from our website now when stock is exhausted and will have to cancel any unfulfilled back orders.

portra is going up 30% like you stated. i went to process supples in london uk last week and they confirmed this to me. so portra in the uk will be 45 now. makes me vomit in my mouth just thinking that i was purchasing the portra 400 120 pro pack from wex a couple years ago for £25.

pentaxuser · Dec 20, 2019

soulstar89 said:
portra is going up 30% like you stated. i went to process supples in london uk last week and they confirmed this to me. so portra in the uk will be 45 now. makes me vomit in my mouth just thinking that i was purchasing the portra 400 120 pro pack from wex a couple years ago for £25.

It would make me vomit as well but other than having this unpleasant bodily reaction can I ask what you intend to do about future purchases. I managed to avoid the vomiting reaction and will prevent any possibility of such an occurrence by ceasing to buy the product.

It would seem that Christmas comes but once a year except in KA or is that Kodak's case or is that more accurately "once a New Year".

pentaxuser

soulstar89 · Dec 20, 2019

pentaxuser said:
It would make me vomit as well but other than having this unpleasant bodily reaction can I ask what you intend to do about future purchases. I managed to avoid the vomiting reaction and will prevent any possibility of such an occurrence by ceasing to buy the product.

It would seem that Christmas comes but once a year except in KA or is that Kodak's case or is that more accurately "once a New Year".

pentaxuser

lol

in all honesty i will either stock up with around 20 120 pro packs before the 1st of jan or stop shooting colour film. Including processing only each pro pack would cost me £70. I could just not purchase any kodak products but in terms of colour in 120 you only have kodak, fuji and lomo. it is extremely limited. Portra is my favourite. even if i choose to go digital for colour the look would be completely different no sensor is say 6x7 or 6x9.

i am yet to decide what i will do with colour. Regarding b&w i have settled with ilford over kodak. hp5 and fp4+ on all formats.

How much will Kodak film prices increase?

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