How much to pay for a Sinar Norma?

[Trond]

I´ve been offered a Sinar Norma 4x5 camera in very good condition. The camera comes in a original case with a Super-Angulon 65mm 5,6 a Symmar 135mm, normal bellows and a bag bellows. The Super-Angulon is intended for 6x9 according to my Schneider data sheet. The Symmar is fogged inside and shows traces of fungus. The shutters don´t work properly and are in need of repair.

I´ve tried searching e-Bay to find out how much they go for, but haven´t reached any conclusion.

So, I wonder if any of you have an opinion on how much it´s reasonable to pay for such a kit.

Thanks,
Trond

 

[David H. Bebbington]

About 5 years ago, I paid £300 to a dealer for a 4x5" Norma with standard and bag bellows and I think one panel. If anything, I would say prices have gone down a little since then. The Super Angulon probably has a dealer price of £300 minus £60 or so for a service. I personally like 135 mm lenses, they cover 4x5" at infinity with little or no movements and are handy for the studio for close-up work, but in the condition you describe the Symmar is virtually worthless - if the fungus is on a glass/air surface and has not yet caused pitting, it can be cleaned off at a certain cost, if the fungus is more advanced and has attacked the balsam holding groups of elements together, you could buy a lens in good order for less than the repair cost. The case if in good condition is very strong and protects the camera well but is very heavy - if you are young, you may be able to walk some distance using the shoulder straps attached to the case, at my age I wouldn't unless I really had to.

My best guess on price based on UK market - dealer price for outfit around £550 to 600, e-bay around £350 to £400. But this IS a guess! Only buy if condition is really excellent - a Sinar Norma in good order will withstand moderate use almost indefinitely and could be the last camera you will ever need to buy, which places the price in perspective.

 

[Struan Gray]

I agree with David as far as the UK goes. In Norden Sinar prices are usually quite a bit higher, as much as double for many accessories, although I have also seen outfits going at much lower prices too.

Check that the rail carriers lock without excessive force and that the locking nuts haven't rotated out of their hexagonal detents and munged the aluminium. Check that the tilts lock down smoothly, again without excessive force, and that the zero detents haven't gone sloppy. A full set of clear bubble levels is nice to have (two on the rear rail carrier, two on each standard), but the only one I use often is the rear roll which levels the tripod in the rail clamp.

After that, my only comment is that it is always better to buy a complete system. Adding a bag bellows, lensboards, filter holder, viewing bellows and all the other fun toys of the Sinar system one by one is very expensive. One downside of this kit therefore may be that you have to buy all the other stuff individually. When I bought my Norma I paid more but saved a lot on accessories and lenses because their value as part of a package was way below what they would fetch individually.

 

[jd callow]

I sold a 4x5 Norma on ebay for 899.00 (buy it now) it came with case, older schneider lens, bag bellows, rail extension and funky shutter lens board (not the new style) -- that worked great.

I also sold a 5x7 Norma (older style with lock downs on knobs) with 4x5 reducing back. No case, similar lens, bag bellows and rail extension for 930.00.

Both were in great shape.

 

[Trond]

Thanks for all the answers!

I do have lenses for my Bender 4x5" which I can use. So I think I´ll help the seller sell the Symmar and the Super-Angulon separately. The Symmar lens is probably usable, if the shutter gets fixed, even if it looks a little fogged and with slight traces of fungus.

I want to keep my Bender camera, which is very nice for carrying around when I want to keep weight down. I would like to be able to use the same lenses on both the Bender and the Sinar. Is it possible to get a adaptor lensboard that accepts 4x4" lens boards for the Sinar?

Thanks,
Trond

 

[Struan Gray]

I have most of my lenses on boards for Linhof Technika cameras which are approximately 4x4" (98x96 mm or something daft). I have a Sinar-Technika adapter which came free with my camera. They go for 50-150 Euros on eBay depending on condition and the phase of the moon: eBay.de has the largest selection and lowest prices within Europe. Various people sell or make them new for 100-150 Euros or so, or you can buy a new Sinar one and not eat for a year or so.

If I remember correctly, the Bender lensplates are just a generic flat board and they won't necessarily work very well with an adapter meant for a Technika because the Technika plates have all sorts of little finesses that have to be catered for. In that case you may have to make your own adapter, but it can be very simple, and Bender may well sell you the hardware you need to copy the clamps on their front standard.

 

[laz]

eBay.de has the largest selection and lowest prices within Europe.

Slightly off topic but I've occassionally visited ebay.de and noticed lower prices on photo equiptment. I have a friend in Germany who could handle local details for me and I've often been tempted to bid.

Any thoughts? (I suspect ebay is like McDonalds, for better or worse, same the world round.)

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Struan Gray]

I have bought a large proportion of my LF kit there. It's a large, liquid market, so you are unlikely to find a bargain on, say, an Apo-Sironar-S, but on the other hand there is a regular turnover of all but the most obscure items. For Sinar and Linhof the prices are usually quite a bit better than the USA version.

My impression is that eBay.de isn't overrun with suspect dealers unloading minty junk. That said, you should still do your homework and on large purchases I would establish a physical address and try to make telephone contact. That said (2) many of the sellers volunteer telephone numbers and other real-world contact info in their listings. Having lived in Germany, I know that probity in personal finances is a matter of honour for most people.

The only real downside is that very few sellers accept paypal or credit cards in any form. Bank transfers are the norm, which can be expensive internationally. For me, it costs 30 Euros to get a specified sum into a German bank account, but whenever I have made small purchases I have found sellers willing to accept Euros stuffed into a (usually registered) envelope.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I've looked at eBay.de, and there are some good deals, but if you live in the U.S., the shipping and, as Struan notes, potential bank transfer fees are enough to offset the savings much of the time.

 

[Trond]

I'm now the happy owner of a Sinar Norma camera!

I´m selling off the Super-Angulon 65mm lens. Send me a note if any of you are interested in buying it.

Trond