How much to offer for an M3

Hey all,

I find myself in the situation where my neighbour is in posession of a Leica M3, and may be interested in selling it. The thing is, I have little to no idea what it is actually worth. I would like to consider myself a fair person, and I am not the type to want to rip someone off. Unfortunately, I forgot to write down the specs of the camera, so here is what I know:
M3 w/ single stroke film advance
notch on film speed wheel to allow for an external meter
comes w/ a 50mm lens, I believe the aperture was f/2 but I'm not sure.
In pretty pristine condition, does not look like it has been used a whole lot.
Has not had a CLA, and probably has barely been used much since it was last used.
Comes w/ a manual and lens shade.

I tried firing it at 1 sec, and I believe that it is probably close (if not) accurate. My guess is that it might need just a little service, but I don't know at this point.

I know the lens could play a big role in this, but for the sake of this guesstimate, but I think I can be a bit conservative, as the offer is for the whole set. What is (in USD) a reasonable offer? Again, I'm not here to rip someone off, I want to be realistic.

You might try checking *sold* eBay auctions for single-stroke M3's in similar condition. Likewise for the lens.

The most desirable lenses are the Summicron and Summilux.

It's been decades since I bought my M3's, which are also mint condition. My double-stroke M3 with collapsable 50/2 Summicron was only $900 total in 1987. My single stroke M3 was $1100 plus $500 for a dual-range Summicron 50/2, sometime in the late 1990's.


A few things to check:

For the speeds slower than 1/30, especially 1/4, 1/2, 1sec, the sound of the gear train should be smooth and not hesitate. For 1/4, 1/2, 1s, it is normal and desirable to hear the gear train continue to run for a bit after the second curtain closes.

Carefully remove the bottom plate (as if loading film - read the instruction manual if you've never done this), raise the back door, and examine the focal plane shutter. Look for damage or holes. Wind the camera and examine the shutter again as you wind it.

Look through the viewfinder and check that the rangefinder patch is bright, clean, and you can focus easily with it. Aim at a very distant object outside, focus - the lens should be at infinity. Check for reasonable focus scale readings as you focus on closer objects.

If this M3 has a self timer, check that - it should sound smooth and not hesitate. If it has a preview lever (below the viewfinder window) for the frame lines of other lenses, check that.

Ensure the frame counter dial advances when you wind the camera.

One relatively objective approach is to look at KEH prices for both buying and selling and take the average of the 2.
Or look (as suggested) at ebay sold prices then deduct 15% for ebay and paypal fees.

Will your neighbor allow you to try out the camera? That's worth something.

Some things to consider:
KEH provides a warranty, I assume your neighbor doesn't
Ebay allows you to return if "not as described". Your neighbor might too, but would you do this.

Ebay prices are all over the place for Leicas. Discounting the obvious chancers, there is still a big disparity between asking prices of seemingly identical cameras, sometimes x2 or more. It isn't helped by unusual numbering and other anomalies causing values to rocket.
If a camera has recently been CLA'd by an acknowledged specialist, and has the paperwork to prove it, add half of the cost of servicing to the price. Likewise if the seller claims to know nothing of its provenance or condition, they should expect a hefty discount from the average. Treat lenses as a separate entity and deduct value for each flaw.
Much depends on your neighbour's valuation of the camera. If they think they're in possession of a valuable legacy, I'd avoid it as you'll never satisfy their own valuation. If they're realistic and you can offer comparisons they'll graciously accept, it could be worth making an offer.

50 f2 could be 50$ J-8 or 2000$ latest Summicron.

It's just about impossible to give figures for this vague amount of information.

I'd ask if I could run a short roll through the camera and then decide what it's worth.

If it operates and the pictures come out fine, then you have a starting point for discussion; otherwise you have no idea what it's worth until you do. It could be just fine, or the shutter could be hosed, there could be pinholes, it could need a CLA, it could need much more.

It's impossible to tell but running a roll through it is a start anyway.

Theo mentioned the two versions of M3.
A little more information won't hurt. The earlier cameras you had to use two stroke of the advance lever to advance one frame. Later cameras used only needed one stroke.
About lenses, Just to confuse things there were several f2 lenses made by Leitz both in ltm and M mount.
It will say o the beauty ring on the lens which formula it is.

Okay, I have some more information:

Single Stroke
M3-1041 376
Lens: Ernst Leitz GmbH Wetzlar Summicrom f=5cm 1:2 Nr.1172696
The smallest aperture is f/16

My guide shows that # should be a collapsible lens. It uses the same formula as the rigid one.
In both cases they're very good depending on the condition of the glass. Check it for
cleaning marks. The front element should be absolutely clear. If you look at it at an angle towards a light
it should not show any marking. Sometimes cleaning marks look like someone got at them with sandpaper.
The early versions had a very soft glass in the front and lots of care was needed in cleaning them.
I'd use a protective filter with one.

Leica described them as "the most perfect lens" in their brochure.

Looks like the camera was made in 1961-same vintage as mine. Pictures wolud be good.