How much should I offer for these Rangefinders?

sruddy · Feb 5, 2019

I have been working for a Dentist for a long time. He has a camera collection in his waiting room. It's been there for at least 15 years. Yesterday I picked one up and was looking through the viewfinder and his assistant asked what I was doing. I explained how I like old film cameras and she asked if I wanted to buy it. It turns out some of the cameras were her husbands who used them for his architecture business. I'm interested in purchasing them but don't have a clue as to what to offer.
Here is the list of items.

Leica DRP
Summitar 5cm/f2
Sonnar 135mm/f4
Summaron 3.5cm/f3.5
Zeiss 1866 exposure timer
Contax IIIa (I think)
Sonnar 50mm/f2
B&W filters
Camera Cases

Kino · Feb 5, 2019

If you are looking to shoot with them, remember they probably need a CLA to be reliable after sitting for 15 years in a waiting room.

Just offer what you can afford; what else can you do?

guangong · Feb 5, 2019

Difficult to judge from pics, but I agree with Kino, will definitely need CLA and perhaps more. Finders didn’t love clear, what about lenses! Go low on offer since you don’t know what you’re getting.

mshchem · Feb 5, 2019

I personally wouldn't buy anything unless you can get a deal. Too many unknowns. Watch out for fungus, element separation. The telephoto is nothing you are likely to use, the adjustable finder looks cool but isn't a great solution. If you could buy the Leica with the 50 and a yellow and orange filter for 200 bucks that would be cool. But make sure it works. If she wants to get rid of everything as a package you need to assume everything needs attention, and should be priced accordingly.
Without a skilled person taking care of this stuff it could be a money pit.

Kino · Feb 5, 2019

There is very clearly a big fan of fungus in that Summitar...

John Koehrer · Feb 5, 2019

It's going to be a bit easier with a couple of descriptions
Leica:
The body is a lllF
The self timer is an APDOO
accessory finder is IMARECT and the lenses are marked with fl and max aperture.

Like the others said, you do need to keep in mind the costs of possible repairs and you can find reference prices on ebay, look for the item and
go to the left hand column and search for SOLD auctions for each one at least you'll have a starting point.
You may think about looking for cameras sold for parts or repair for the unknown state of the equipment.

For an idea on that, three companies are usually suggested here on the site. DAG camera repair, GOLDEN TOUCH and Youxin Ye.
Both DAG and Golden touch will cost as much or more than you're going to pay for the equipment.

Youxin Ye has done work for me. He's the most reasonable and only works on ltm Leicas, I believe he has prices listed on his site.

I know less than bupkis about Contax.

btaylor · Feb 6, 2019

Youxin works on some M models too (he CLA’d my M2) just check his website.
The Contax is a IIIa with the Zeiss f2 50mm. More than likely the camera needs a CLA and the meter is probably dead. Doesn’t mean it can’t take great pics. Contaxes are Expensive to repair and qualified techs are few and far between. I would figure you’re looking at $300-400 to make it useable.. They sell for $200-300 on eBay last I looked.

Ko.Fe. · Feb 6, 2019

If you need to find prices go to ebay and search for it, but only for sold listings. Be careful, ebay adds another one and it will spoof the prices.
Uncheck and leave sold only.
Once you get where check for lowest price and divide it by two. This is will be your fair price.
But you could always divide it by two again.
Basically you are about to buy gear which will require hundreds of dollars to make works again.

AgX · Feb 6, 2019

sruddy said:
Leica DRP

D.R.P. was the abbreviation for Deutsches Reichspatent. It means the camera was somehow patended. It could also refer, as placed directly under "Leica", to Deutsches Reichspatentamt (Patent Office) and hinting at "Leica" being a registered tradename, though for this there was a special abbreviation.

sruddy · Feb 7, 2019

John Koehrer said:
It's going to be a bit easier with a couple of descriptions
Leica:
The body is a lllF
The self timer is an APDOO
accessory finder is IMARECT and the lenses are marked with fl and max aperture.

Like the others said, you do need to keep in mind the costs of possible repairs and you can find reference prices on ebay, look for the item and
go to the left hand column and search for SOLD auctions for each one at least you'll have a starting point.
You may think about looking for cameras sold for parts or repair for the unknown state of the equipment.

For an idea on that, three companies are usually suggested here on the site. DAG camera repair, GOLDEN TOUCH and Youxin Ye.
Both DAG and Golden touch will cost as much or more than you're going to pay for the equipment.

Youxin Ye has done work for me. He's the most reasonable and only works on ltm Leicas, I believe he has prices listed on his site.

I know less than bupkis about Contax.

Thank you John, this info is very much appreciated!

btaylor said:
Youxin works on some M models too (he CLA’d my M2) just check his website.
The Contax is a IIIa with the Zeiss f2 50mm. More than likely the camera needs a CLA and the meter is probably dead. Doesn’t mean it can’t take great pics. Contaxes are Expensive to repair and qualified techs are few and far between. I would figure you’re looking at $300-400 to make it useable.. They sell for $200-300 on eBay last I looked.

If I restored both cameras I'm think I would use the Contax over the Leica. It has faster max shutter speed, a single rangefinder and composing screen that is easier to see the edges of the frame, a working meter, and easier film loading.

Ko.Fe. said:
If you need to find prices go to ebay and search for it, but only for sold listings. Be careful, ebay adds another one and it will spoof the prices.
Uncheck and leave sold only.
Once you get where check for lowest price and divide it by two. This is will be your fair price.
But you could always divide it by two again.
Basically you are about to buy gear which will require hundreds of dollars to make works again.

Good advice, I do that and found a sold kit with extra lenses and filters for $375. I was thinking of offering $300 but with repair of even just one of them will probably end up costing me $600 +.

AgX said:
D.R.P. was the abbreviation for Deutsches Reichspatent. It means the camera was somehow patended. It could also refer, as placed directly under "Leica", to Deutsches Reichspatentamt (Patent Office) and hinting at "Leica" being a registered tradename, though for this there was a special abbreviation.

Thanks I had no idea.

Well I am going to offer around $300 but will start by saying I would love to have the cameras however neither one works and I'll need to pay to have them restored. I'm hoping she'll say just take them. I really like the Contax. I read somewhere that in it's day it was considered a professional camera and at the same time the Leica was thought of as an amateurs camera. The single viewfinder is very user friendly, has faster shutter speed, has a working meter, built in timer, and easier film loading It is way heavier than the Leica but I don't mind the extra weight.

Kino · Feb 7, 2019

My dentist has boring hobbies...

MattKing · Feb 7, 2019

Kino said:
My dentist has boring hobbies...

My experience in photo retail leads me to believe more top line, latest and greatest whiz bang cameras have been sold over the years to Dentists than any other professionals, including professional photographers!
Apologies to a couple of Dentists I know who are excellent photographers.

sruddy · Feb 9, 2019

I got them for $300. It was $100 more than I wanted to pay but I have known the seller for many years and she has a large recent dept from her deceased husbands medical bills. I cleaned everything and have found the the Contax Sonnar 50mm f2 to be in great condition. The Leica 135 and 35mm lenses have near mint glass as well. Handling both cameras the Contax seems to be more than a little better quality than the Leica. It has better finish, ergonomics, combined focus/composition viewfinder, easier loading and winding, and a better lens. I need to find a service tech though. Looks like the Contax master Henry Scherer maybe be overkill and out of my budget. I'm going to run a roll thru it and see what I get. The shutter definitely isn't dragging actually 1 second seems faster than a second!?? All the filters are in perfect shape too.

jimjm · Feb 9, 2019

For the Contax, you can try Mark Hansen. He seems to think very highly of Contax quality over Leica SM and Nikon rangefinder bodies. I haven't used his services though, but his rates are probably less than Henry Scherer's, I would imagine.
Isn't that 135mm actually the Sonnar in Contax mount? It sure looks like one.
I've got a Contax IIA, as well as a Leica IIIf, and I agree that the Contax is more user-friendly. If you get it serviced by a competent tech, you'll be good for at least a decade or more of shooting. I think one reason there are a lot of non-functional IIA and IIIA bodies out there is due to the fact that not as many people know how to repair them, and they're not well-known like Leica, thus not worth as much $$. Better shooters than the Barnack bodies, but were never quite able to compete with the M-mount Leicas.
Good Luck!

Kino · Feb 9, 2019

sruddy said:
I got them for $300. It was $100 more than I wanted to pay but I have known the seller for many years and she has a large recent dept from her deceased husbands medical bills. I cleaned everything and have found the the Contax Sonnar 50mm f2 to be in great condition. The Leica 135 and 35mm lenses have near mint glass as well. Handling both cameras the Contax seems to be more than a little better quality than the Leica. It has better finish, ergonomics, combined focus/composition viewfinder, easier loading and winding, and a better lens. I need to find a service tech though. Looks like the Contax master Henry Scherer maybe be overkill and out of my budget. I'm going to run a roll thru it and see what I get. The shutter definitely isn't dragging actually 1 second seems faster than a second!?? All the filters are in perfect shape too.

Well that's great that the lenses are clear! That must have been a reflection of a tree or something in the original pictures you posted. Ooops!

Slower speeds that run faster than the indicated setting is also an indicator that the camera needs service. It may or may not become more accurate with use. Try exercising the shutter for a while as long as it doesn't show signs of getting worse or starts making strange noises.

sruddy · Feb 10, 2019

jimjm said:
For the Contax, you can try Mark Hansen. He seems to think very highly of Contax quality over Leica SM and Nikon rangefinder bodies. I haven't used his services though, but his rates are probably less than Henry Scherer's, I would imagine.
Isn't that 135mm actually the Sonnar in Contax mount? It sure looks like one.
I've got a Contax IIA, as well as a Leica IIIf, and I agree that the Contax is more user-friendly. If you get it serviced by a competent tech, you'll be good for at least a decade or more of shooting. I think one reason there are a lot of non-functional IIA and IIIA bodies out there is due to the fact that not as many people know how to repair them, and they're not well-known like Leica, thus not worth as much $$. Better shooters than the Barnack bodies, but were never quite able to compete with the M-mount Leicas.
Good Luck!

Yes it does look like the 135mm Sonnar has the Contax bayonet mount. I overlooked that but am happy that's the case! I'm surprised how clean the elements are because the body has lots of corrosion. I was thinking of taking some steel wool to it but am afraid the wool will get inside. I'll try Mark as I've been reading Henry's website and I feel he is a bit eccentric. He apparently only does one complete disassembly service whether your camera needs it or not and only one mention of approximate cost being $700. He also gets's a bit whiny about his profit margin. I wish I had a parts camera so I could take it apart and see if I could do a diy CAL. For the Leica I have a similar Canon that I could disassemble however Youxin Ye said his service with a new curtain is only $240 so I'll have him do the Leica.

Kino said:
Well that's great that the lenses are clear! That must have been a reflection of a tree or something in the original pictures you posted. Ooops!

Slower speeds that run faster than the indicated setting is also an indicator that the camera needs service. It may or may not become more accurate with use. Try exercising the shutter for a while as long as it doesn't show signs of getting worse or starts making strange noises.

My photos were before I did any cleaning so the lenses looked very dirty. I'm going to shoot a test rolls today. Keeping my fingers crossed that I wont need and expensive repair bill on the Contax.

daleeman · Feb 17, 2019

Kino said:
My dentist has boring hobbies...

My dentist only likes to bore holes in me.

markjwyatt · Feb 17, 2019

btaylor said:
Youxin works on some M models too (he CLA’d my M2) just check his website.
The Contax is a IIIa with the Zeiss f2 50mm. More than likely the camera needs a CLA and the meter is probably dead. Doesn’t mean it can’t take great pics. Contaxes are Expensive to repair and qualified techs are few and far between. I would figure you’re looking at $300-400 to make it useable.. They sell for $200-300 on eBay last I looked.

I got my Contax iia CLA'd for under $200 (Ross Yerkes), and it is working perfectly. Figure $400 to have it completely rebuilt, which may not be necessary.

The Contax iia/iiia were the top of the line [35mm] rangefinders ever (opinion of many) up until the Leica M3 came around, which had some feature advantages and also of course had excellent optics (there is an ongoing debate between Leitz and Zeiss optics). I have the iia, and it is currently my favorite film camera.

markjwyatt · Feb 17, 2019

sruddy said:
... I'm surprised how clean the elements are because the body has lots of corrosion. I was thinking of taking some steel wool to it but am afraid the wool will get inside...

Those are called "Zeiss bumps" and very typical of all Contax cameras of that age. They should be removed by a professional. I personally would not take steel wool to them- they will just return and you might damage the finish.

markjwyatt · Feb 17, 2019

The steel block with the wires looks like a flash adapter so you can use a standard PC mount flash rather than the proprietary Zeiss flash connection on the rear top.

jvo · Feb 17, 2019

i gotta get a "better" dentist... good luck with this, it's a great problem to have!

sruddy · Feb 18, 2019

markjwyatt said:
Those are called "Zeiss bumps" and very typical of all Contax cameras of that age. They should be removed by a professional. I personally would not take steel wool to them- they will just return and you might damage the finish.

I’m referring to the oxidation all over the 135mm lens. I am sending the camera to Mark Hansen today. I’ll have him fix the bumps.

jvo said:
i gotta get a "better" dentist... good luck with this, it's a great problem to have!

Ha ha ,thx!

sruddy · Feb 18, 2019

markjwyatt said:
The steel block with the wires looks like a flash adapter so you can use a standard PC mount flash rather than the proprietary Zeiss flash connection on the rear top.

I actually got it working with my studio strobes. I had to open it up to clean and adjust. It seems to be very used,so I’ll be looking for another one.

markjwyatt · Feb 18, 2019

sruddy said:
I actually got it working with my studio strobes. I had to open it up to clean and adjust. It seems to be very used,so I’ll be looking for another one.

I ordered one and have it, but have not tested it yet. Glad you got it under control.

Pioneer · Feb 18, 2019

I do love my Contax but I shoot my Barnacks more often. Doesn't seem to make sense but that i how it has worked out for me.

Enjoy your cameras. They are both excellent and very high quality pieces of equipment with wonderful lenses.

How much should I offer for these Rangefinders?

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