How much information to 'give'

As a lawyer, I'm often asked for free advice and assistance. On a reasonably regular basis, I give free advice and assistance, when the circumstances are appropriate.

Every lawyer I know donates a fair amount of his/her time and expertise in one way or another, whether it is helping individual clients with limited or no means to pay, or volunteering or contributing to education etc., etc., etc.

One also has to balance this, of course, with a need to make a living.

One point though - it is one thing to choose to give some thing of value, without fee. It is an entirely different thing to have someone expect something free from you, without even having the courtesy of asking.

Some clients are so scared about possible costs, they won't even bring the subject up. I always encourage clients to express those concerns.

Dorothy, you should decide what you want to do, based on your own judgement, and on what you can find out about the young person in question. It may be that if the request came from her, and you knew more about what she was looking for, you would be happy to work out something that both of you would benefit from. What you are willing to offer her should, however, be only on terms that you are comfortable with.

Wait for it >>>>> My two cents worth

Matt

My wife spent years as the Asst Director of Admissions at an ivy league college in New York City, then 10 more years as the Director of College Placement at a private, all-girls school in Philadelphia. Nothing brings the people wanting free advice out of the woodwork faster than a college admissions professional at a cocktail party, football game, etc. She would come home from social events wiped out; often having had the biggest crowd around her of any one in the room - - often embarrassingly large.

But as time progressed and we got to know many of these people, all professionals of some sort, and we often found cause to use their services... And, as was mentioned above, there was never any hint of a "discount" in the transaction, yet many of them (in the lawyer's office or in the doctor's office) asked for college admissions advice for little Johnny or little Susie, then proceeded to hand us the bill for their services.

It may seem cruel, but my wife finally adopted the response that they should call her secretary on Monday, schedule an appointment, and they could discuss rates and services. It was hard for her to say the first few times, but in the end, it actually allowed relationships with these other professionals to return to normal rather than one of dread for her.

Dorothy Blum Cooper said:

In the most recent encounter with the couple, the husband mentioned to my husband that his daughter needs a darkroom set up. She could 'sure use the help.' There's that word again!

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Since you live somewhere in central NC, I have a suggestion. The next time they ask--send them to either Southeastern Camera or Peace Camera in Raleigh. Both stores have darkroom supplies and people on staff who could help them. the more darkroom business we send to these stores in our area, the better we'll be in the longrun for getting supplies ourselves.

I have taken time out to show people how to set up darkrooms, or to help students out. I don't really have a problem with that, but then again, I'm not a photo teacher. I don't help people out by shooting stuff for them, because I'm a photographer, and when I'm not working, I don't want to be working for free, if that makes any sense? I brush these sorts of inquiries off pretty fast. I've blown off so much side work, it's not even funny probably to anyone who freelances, but I'm just not interested, when 75% of the time, the reason why they ask, is because they don't want to pay a living wage. This is a generalization, of course, but like Jonathan Brewer says above--it's a manipulative ploy often, and you can tell.

So I'm pretty upfront with them, and just say, sorry I'm not interested. It's helpful to think about it this way--when people approach you, it's not like you are bidding on a job, or making a cold call. They're asking you to do something. If you're not interested, but they persist--then it's their problem. For me, when this happens, it's usually somebody wanting me to shoot something. If they persist---what I do is give them my "nuisance fee" which is high bid. really high. you can gauge it by your interactions with them. if you think, well, it might not be that bad, but it would take this amount--then see if they're interested. If they turn out to be the clients from hell, the kind everyone has had to deal with--then the nuisance fee can be pretty high. you just bid yourself out of the ballpark. it's like self-preservation. life's too short to spend your off-time dealing with difficult people.


but seriously--send them to a camera store. we have some good ones in the triangle that are still stocking used darkroom stuff and supplies.

maybe invite the daughter to have a snack at a local café,
bring a few photographs and ask her to show some of what she has done ..
then offer a book on photography or something similar
( maybe a website like this one to visit and learn ) ... if she is still interested
after that, maybe if you want to offer paid lessons or something else ...

when i was in boy scouts i went to a local bookbinder for instruction.
he said to me what he said to all the kids who went to him
"build a sewing rack and come back after that and i will teach you the merit badge"
at that point i went home and built a sewing rack, went back and learned
about bookbinding. the kids before me went home and lost interest because
they had to do something to show their interest ...

i guess in a round-about way i am saying, find out from amy what her interest is and give her a book to read ...

good luck!
john

Back in the days when I was making a living at doing things like photographing weddings, on more than one occasion, while a guest at a wedding of some relative, a parent of either the bride or groom tried to hand me their 35mm camera - 'Oh, you know how to do this, here, take some pictures'. I politely declined.

This thread reminds me of the story about the doctor and the lawyer at a social gathering. After being approached several times by someone seeking free medical advice, the doctor asked the lawyer if it would be appropriate to bill someone under those circumstances. The lawyer said 'Yes, and that'll be $75.'

Bob

.......'So, helping out a friend or someone in need is great. I also look at my start with watercolor painting. I never would have even started if it was not for the niceness of the the art teacher here at the school. his time is way more than I could spend and he went insane helping me. I asked one simple question and the next thing I knew I was handed watercolor paints, paper, a how too book and he spet several hours showing me how to get started and we had a great time.

No real point aside from, not everything is about money all the time. SOme times it is about being nice.

Too each their own I guess.'.....................

...........While this is absolutely true, I disagree that this is the point of what's being said here.

I've was mentored over the years by several folks in learning photography, and eternally grateful for that. I recently mentored a young photographer because I liked him and his family, and because I believe he's going to be an excellent photographer, I critiqued his work, worked w/him on some lighting set-up, I helped him set up his studio in his garage, I went out shooting w/him to give him tips, I've had him over to my house for dinner, and we've had dinner w/his family. When we discussed his wondering what I expected from my helping him, I told him I like him and his family and expected no pay, and that any payment he felt obligated to give me, sould be in the form of his eventually passing on what I showed him to somebody deserving.



As Matt King said, I don't mind giving a 'freebee', or giving something away, or helping someone in need, but I need it to be my idea, ......................not from somebody who's trying to hustle it out of me.

I for one, am not being 'all about money', I've done this long enough to know when my clients have any money, I could've gouged a couple of my clients who I knew were rolling in money, one of 'em was a girlfriend of my wifes, she has an EXTREMELY lucrative business providing Kidney dialysis(ask the doctors around here about what that costs), and I gave her a decent price even though I could've charged her more. One of the reasons I gave her a good prices was that even though she and my wife went to school together, she told me before the job that she didn't expect any discount. ....................And ironically, one of the most 'STINGIEST' clients I ever had was rich.

There is a huge difference between choosing to give and letting yourself be taken. When someone has an angle, there is no shame in protecting yourself. That is NOT a lack of generosity.

Is this kid old enough to get into a community college darkroom/photography class as a non-matriculated student? Maybe that could be suggested to deflect the whole thing.

And then there's always the old "My consulting rate is $105 per hour, but for you I'll do it for $85."

DaveT

Interesting stuff!! Whether I agree or disagree with the statements made here...I have to say that I thank you all for taking time to respond to my question. It is much appreciated.

We've decided that, while there is definitely no 'miscommunication' as to this couples intent in the matter, we will offer any help we can, but inform them of an hourly rate for teaching and darkroom setup. That should resolve any misunderstandings.

Again, thank you!!