How many work prints?

[Roger Hicks]

An idle question, the answer to which others might also find interesting. Very roughly how many work prints do other members make, on average, before getting the print they want?

Frances Schultz (who does almost all my printing) reckons on two work prints and a final, on average. Of course it's an average: sometimes there's only one work print; very, very rarely it comes out right first time; and sometimes it runs to four or five or more. But on average, the third print is the final.

Mind you, that's partly because (like any printer) she can go on re-working the same print forever: it's just that after a while, she is the only one who can see the differences between them.

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

 

[Ian Grant]

Sounds entirely right Roger.

Test strip to guage the exposure and grade, first work print to evaluate shading & burning, (which I will have been doing from experience of reading negatives), second work print to fine tune, sometimes this is the final print. More usually the third print is the final print.

Obviously with a difficult negative it may take a lot more to achieve the desired result.

Ian

 

[Ole]

That seems very similar to my experience - except when I get into toning and different paper types etc.

The first print I don't expect to be perfect - it's a guide for further work. The next one will be made with the burning (rarely dodging) I've decided on from the first print, and should be very close. Most of the time it just needs a little fine tuning for the final print; sometimes it doesn't. And some times I decide to change everything, and then it's at least one more work print...

 

[Ole]

Addendum: I have a negative which I'm sure contains a great picture. So far I'm up to 20 prints, all of them work prints, and I still don't know how to bring out what I want from that negative. It's not (very) technically difficult, it just doesn't seem to want to be printed!

 

[Matthew Gorringe]

Sometimes for me it's not the number of work prints but the time between work and fine prints that is important.

I might take 3 or 4 goes to arrive at something I'm satisfied with. I then consider this my "first" work print.

At this point I'll try to leave it alone for a week or two, just have a look at the print every now and then. Once it's been "aged" and I have a better idea of how it should be improved I'll go back and try to make a fine print.

 

[Muihlinn]

I'm about those figures too.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

That sounds about right to me. Occasionally there is something that takes more than three, or might involve working through different versions.

 

[Dan Henderson]

My workflow is similar to Mattg's. I'll contact print a roll (120 film), and make work prints on 8x10 paper of the "possibles" on the roll just getting the exposure and contrast close enough. I then let them sit on my kitchen counter for a few days where I look at them every time I go by, play with cropping, and finally decide which (if any) deserve more attention. Those I will print with more care at my usual finished size of 10x10", dodging and burning as needed, cropped as needed, maybe playing with contrast a bit, and printed with warmer or cooler paper, developer, or toner.

 

[df cardwell]

Roger,

I seldom need more than two "work" prints before producing a museum quality exhibition print.

My own system involves , however, an large number of " didn't work" prints :rolleyes:

don

.

 

[Neal]

Hi Roger,

For me, two work prints and a final would be "normall", but when I add in the ones that take many times more the average goes way up! Of course, the latter are much more enjoyable.

Neal Wydra

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Don

I liked that, very funny. Say, is Adray's in Dearborn still around. Do they still sell traditional stuff. I miss that store. I bought my 4x5 there.

 

[Monophoto]

Photographers generally aren't good furniture makers. They don't make sandpaper that is fine enough.

 

[Jim Chinn]

For me usually 3 work prints and then a finished print. I have a tendancy after making a final print to go back and try to improve or alter the balance with slightly different burning or dodging times. Pretty much the first version is still the best but I like making the comparison. I guess you could call that a post final print work print. Also as others have said, some images just beg to be played with in a toner, or maybe looked at in both neutral and warm tone papers. So if one considers those work prints they can bump the average up.

 

[firecracker]

Sometimes for me it's not the number of work prints but the time between work and fine prints that is important.

I might take 3 or 4 goes to arrive at something I'm satisfied with. I then consider this my "first" work print.

At this point I'll try to leave it alone for a week or two, just have a look at the print every now and then. Once it's been "aged" and I have a better idea of how it should be improved I'll go back and try to make a fine print.

I let my work prints sit for a while, and often times it takes a couple of days, weeks, months, a year, or even longer for me to get the results I want as the final prints.

Of course when I print for other people, I don't go this far.

 

[Jerry Basierbe]

Ralph,
Yes, Adray's is still in Dearborn and they do still traditional supplies. They also have opened three other camera/photo stores in the area.

Jerry

 

[Andy K]

An idle question, the answer to which others might also find interesting. Very roughly how many work prints do other members make, on average, before getting the print they want?

Having only been making my own photographs for about ten months I am still a relative beginner in enlarging. Unfortunately the nearest place with a real photographic course to me is some 30 odd miles away and too impractical for me to attend, so I have had to learn from advice on this site and various books.
So my reply to the question is: still too many but getting fewer.

 

[Ishotharold]

andy,
I can sympathize! I just finnished a three week course here at the school but being that I shot digital for a couple years semi-professional I verfy quickly tierd of learning what an f-stop was so the professor let me move ahead on my own. I went though about 70 work prints before I got my final set of 5 for the class project. I'm hoping that number goes down as time goes on .

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Decades...

Murray

 

[Bob Carnie]

I start with a test strip for density and contrast .

I then make a full print no dodge and burn just to see the image.
I then make a darker and lighter print from this balance to see the difference.

I will then make my first work print with dodge and burns . Also add in any multiple hits of different filters for contrast adjustments.

Once I have arrived at a print that I like, usually 5 to 7 sheets, I will make one more with some kind of different effect to see if I like the last print better.

When printing a show of common style negs, I will then work from the balance that I like using the above method , and apply this balance to the rest of the negs. This then drops my work prints down to 3 or 4 per image.

 

[Peter Williams]

My own system involves , however, an large number of " didn't work" prints :rolleyes: .

I also follow this method.

 

[Andy K]

I start with a test strip for density and contrast .

I then make a full print no dodge and burn just to see the image.
I then make a darker and lighter print from this balance to see the difference.

I will then make my first work print with dodge and burns . Also add in any multiple hits of different filters for contrast adjustments.

Once I have arrived at a print that I like, usually 5 to 7 sheets, I will make one more with some kind of different effect to see if I like the last print better.

When printing a show of common style negs, I will then work from the balance that I like using the above method , and apply this balance to the rest of the negs. This then drops my work prints down to 3 or 4 per image.

This is pretty much the same method I use, arrived at by trial and error. But, because i have a tight budget, after the first full print I then use strips again to figure out dodge and burn times, I find it less wasteful than using whole sheets.

 

[bill schwab]

I can usually nail a print with one or two work prints as long as I know what I want to do with it. Unfortunately, although I always have a pretty good idea of what I am trying to achieve, I used to go more in a first printing of a negative. Now everything is d******y "proofed" first. I tend to work the image in Pshop before it ever hits the wet darkroom. It gives me a resonable facimile of what I want the finished print to be and has cut-down immensely on wasted paper and chemistry.

Bill

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I use maquettes...little 6 1/2x5 inch images on 8x6 1/4 inch pieces of paper. I trim a 3 3/4 inch piece off an 8x10 sheet and that gives a good sized test strip. I can go through many many 'didn't work' prints at little cost compared to 11x14, and can try lots of variations and refinements. When jumping up to final print size there's usually contrast changes that need to be done, but most of the dodging and burning issues have been settled.

Murray

 

[Paul Howell]

I don't have any set number, once in a while I can nail a print the first time, others I may 2 or 3 work prints to find the look, but other times I will try different papers, different crops, so I may make 10 or even 12 prints before I have what I really want, then my wife (former art director and journalist) peeks in and I start over.

 

[c6h6o3]

Anywhere from 3 to 15, depending on the negative and how much dodging and/or burning I have to dope out.