How many companies have made E-6 film?

[Dave Parker]

Ron, what does the E in E-6 stand for? I was always told it was Ektachrome 6 step, is that correct or have I been hoodwinkled?

Dave

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, almost there Dave. Ektachrome 6 (for the 6th process of that name) There were a total of 6.

PE

 

[FilmIs4Ever]

Ron, if you're referring to the date of the Pearl Harbor Day attack, it was in '41, not '40. The reason for the comparatively big fuss about the anniversary yesterday compared to other years was that it was the 65th anniversary, and possibly th last time a lot of the surviving veterans would meet up, although some say there will still be enough living for one more at the 70th anniversary five years from now.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Sorry, right Karl. Kodak's introduction date was in 1941, and the product was to be called Azochrome.

PE

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Aha, now I really get it why negative films nowadays have an orange cast. I remember reading that the first Agfa negative process had no such cast, and that is something that needed improvement to get a proper color balance. If the dyes were actually perfect, then the orange dmin would be unnecessary. The latest Rollei 400CN scanfilm does not have the colored mask, so would that suggest that they are using uncolored couplers? I'm curious also as to what kind of post-processing would be necessary on this film if there are inevitable residual color imperfections.

 

[dmr]

Aha, now I really get it why negative films nowadays have an orange cast.

Ya know, for as long as I can remember I've asked why the color negatives always have that orange cast. The most common answer was along the line that it was necessary to compensate for something in the printing paper, but nobody seemed to really know.

Thanks for clearing up one of the great mysteries of the universe.

 

[Photo Engineer]

All films need some sort of correction for unwanted dye hues. You cannot do the masking thing in reversal films, so the color is not corrected much but rather is exaggerated by means of interimage effects and contrast. Since you can only really have these effects in the first developer, it is harder to do with reversal films and do it well.

Color negative films can use the orange mask. If they do not, then they will suffer from the same color defects as reversal film and so they must have greater interimage or higher contrast or both. I'm surprised that a modern day negative film is not masked, but it is not impossible, it is just not going to give the highest quality. That is why all companies went over to the Kodak method either by their own chemistry, patent licences or by waiting until the Kodak licences expired.

You are all welcome. Glad to help clear up one of the mysteries of the universe.

PE

 

[MattKing]

One of the interesting things about these threads is that I think are a lot of us who are much more interested in learning about sensitometry (including colour sensitometry) than there would have when film was "king" and the film industry was robust and growing.

My Dad had a few sensitometry texts around the house that he got through his association with Kodak when I was growing up, but I was never all that interested in them. He is in no way an engineer or chemist, but he does (and did) have a real curiosity about what went into the film and processes that the customers depended on. I think that was relatively rare then.

Now that film and photographic paper may be more at risk, I think those who do appreciate it, are more likely to be interested in how it accomplishes what it does.

Matt

 

[copake_ham]

Ron, if you're referring to the date of the Pearl Harbor Day attack, it was in '41, not '40. The reason for the comparatively big fuss about the anniversary yesterday compared to other years was that it was the 65th anniversary, and possibly th last time a lot of the surviving veterans would meet up, although some say there will still be enough living for one more at the 70th anniversary five years from now.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I was "chomping at the bit" over that mixup of 1940 and 1941! As an old history major I thought I was going to blow a gasket!

BTW, PE, thanks, as always, for the education on film - but we do need to get you to work on those dates!

 

[Dave Parker]

Yesterday was an emotional day, and I was going to say something as well, I layed my Grandfather to rest in Pearl in 1989, he was an Arizona survivor, so I am very familiar with the date and I am glad that we have got it back in the correct time line!

Dave

 

[Photo Engineer]

Obviously, my forte isn't modern history. My wife was born in '40, so it just slipped by me. Geez guys, sorry, sorry, sorry. However, lets go back and talk about ancient history before 2000 BC. Now I can talk about khufu and Ramesseid kings of Egypt quite well. I can even read a few hieroglyphs. So....

PE

 

[Dave Parker]

Obviously, my forte isn't modern history. My wife was born in '40, so it just slipped by me. Geez guys, sorry, sorry, sorry. However, lets go back and talk about ancient history before 2000 BC. Now I can talk about khufu and Ramesseid kings of Egypt quite well. I can even read a few hieroglyphs. So....

PE

Sorry Ron,

Just busting you balls a bit...

LMFAO



Dave

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ok, Dave. How many Ramesseid pharohs were there?

PE

 

[Dave Parker]

Ok, Dave. How many Ramesseid pharohs were there?

PE

At this point in time Ron, I don't know the answer!

:confused:

Dave

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, we are nearly 3000 years too late to care.

Ahahah.

Hey Dave, have a good evening. This was right back at you and meant in fun. Have a good one.

BTW, I don't know the answer either, but I think there were 9 or so.

Ron

 

[copake_ham]

Obviously, my forte isn't modern history. My wife was born in '40, so it just slipped by me. Geez guys, sorry, sorry, sorry. However, lets go back and talk about ancient history before 2000 BC. Now I can talk about khufu and Ramesseid kings of Egypt quite well. I can even read a few hieroglyphs. So....

PE

PE,

I do not think you realize how deep in doodoo you are.

You might be wise to start building your own pyramid - which is, after all, nothing more than a glorified tomb.

Do you realize that you have now revealed your wife's age to all of APUG and the World Wide Web?

 

[Photo Engineer]

PE,

I do not think you realize how deep in doodoo you are.

You might be wise to start building your own pyramid - which is, after all, nothing more than a glorified tomb.

Do you realize that you have now revealed your wife's age to all of APUG and the World Wide Web?

Gee, its too bad grand exits are no longer allowed. Then I could go out on my shield. I keep digging this deeper and deeper don't I.

Lets get back to something I do know.

PE

 

[ZorkiKat]

Masking

Lets get back to something I do know.

PE

Ron/PE

Are only the orange-coloured colour negatives considered as 'masked'? The old Agfacolor CN17 negatives I have don't look orange, nor do their clear areas look clear. They look yellow with a hint of green.

Also, I'm curious about the AnscoColor processes. Did they use Agfa technologies, given their prewar collaboration? Did WWII and post-war AnscoColor (and 1950s Anscochrome?) use Agfacolor compatible processing?

I have a DVD of the 1940s German film "Muenchhausen", shot on 1940s Agfacolor. Though digitally restored, I have the impression that the original palette is still evident- the tomato reds, pink fleshtones, velvety greens are quite delightful, compared to the garish Technicolor renderings of the that period.

Jay

 

[Photo Engineer]

Today, all masked color products are orange in color however there was a Kodak product in the 40s that used a silver mask that did not have an orange color. Offhand, I cannot remember details.

Agfa and some Japanese products used a long wash after color development to introduce large interimage effects and therefore a form of pseudo masking without the orange color.

Some early products used two color imaging instead of 3 color imaging with an orange-red and a blue-cyan dye. These early products were used in some motion picture products such as early Technicolor which was a type of dye transfer. An early version of Kodachrome was two color.

Agfa-Ansco used Agfa couplers before the war and for some time after the war, but began gradually converting to Kodak style couplers. I have no idea when this took place or when it was finished, but I do know that I saw sample product in about 1961 or 1962 when at Cape Canaveral.

PE

 

[PHOTOTONE]

You know, after all this discussion, I don't think we ever came up with a definitive list of all the manufacturers who made E-6 compatible films.