How long to build up your LF camera and darkroom kit?

MARTIE · Dec 29, 2021

It has taken me literally decades to build up my large (& medium) format camera gear and darkroom kit. On one hand, I believe the LF journey has become more accessible but on the other there is a scarcity of good, high-end professional gear, affordable or otherwise.

And while I admire the enthusiasm and understand the frustration of those (re-)starting, it surprises me how quickly they expect to get up and running, with high expectations, and that, in an ever decreasing market.

So, how long did it take you to get your 'ideal' camera and darkroom kit?

And what do you believe are realistic expectations and time scale of someone setting out on their LF journey, today?

abruzzi · Dec 29, 2021

My ideal camera was my third camera, and I stumbled into it after about 2 years playing with 4x5. First camera was a Shen Hao (for sale soon), second was a Master Technika, and finally, a Technikardan 45.

For my dark room, I got lucky. Since shipping enlargers is uncommon on ebay and other used venues, I was stuck watching craigslist and hoping. I bought the first enlarger that came up for sale ~5 years ago when I was primarily shooting 35mm. The enlarger was actualy a pair of Omega Ds--a D2 and a later one. I scavenged parts from both of them, and built my franken-D. But the point is, I got lucky in that the only enlarger I could find locally was good up to 4x5.

At this point, three years after starting with LF, I'm at a point that for 4x5 I don't need anything (don't get me started on 8x10, which is still in its growing pains stage, or 6x9 which is my current build out.) I do have about 3x as many lenses as I need for 4x5. I figure at some point in the no-to-distant future, I'll liquidate what I don't regularly use.

Sirius Glass · Dec 29, 2021

My two 4"x5" cameras only took a few months.

The Hasselblad ensemble took about five years but then much later I was offered, separate times, two lenses that I did not think I wanted or would use at prices that I could not walk away from. The 30mm Fisheye I ended up using and enjoying more than I thought I would and the 500mm lens even with the 2XE extender just seems to be too short sometimes to photograph wildlife.

The 35mm Nikons with the lenses were bought on the order of immediately or soon after.

M Carter · Dec 29, 2021

In the US, between Craig's list, eBay, and even ease of travel to a large city, it's not hard at all to build up the gear you want. I've got two Beseler MXTs with a total investment of $210.00 in enlargers/boards/carriers and even lenses. Upgraded lenses to 6-elements (eBay). Had a Cambo 4x5 forever, if I want a field camera I imagine I'll spend $500-$700, but that's a good price compared to buying new. Probably my biggest expense of the last few years was a 16x20 easel (it'll print 20x24 with a 1" border, too). I could use a larger dry mount press.

At some point you may have to start buying new items as far as really meaningful upgrades. For me the pricey things have been:

Pin-registered masking carrier setup, like $450 - use the living hell out of that.
Versalab laser aligner, use the daylights out of that, too. $220. Worth every penny.
Xerostat gun, $75-ish?
Edmunds wide field magnifier, fantastic loupe for spotting/retouch - $110 or so.

All of those items have been game changers (well, the Xero stat's a bit of a luxe thing, but it does work well). Considering I can still buy an MXT new, I've saved about $5-6K in enlargers alone. We all buy stuff for pennies-on-the-dollar compared to the film era, but some things just aren't out there used.

Just avoid chasing hear, gear, gear. Fantastic images can often be made with lower-grade stuff; it's the gear between your ears that makes all the difference. Practice, experience, and learning to fine-tune your critical thinking, viewing other art of all kinds, and exploring why a given work strikes you emotionally - money can't buy that, but it's a huge part of success.

MurrayMinchin · Dec 29, 2021

It took one day to acquire my 4x5 gear and still working 40+ years on the darkroom.

I ordered a two lens Zone VI 4x5 outfit in about 1980 and haven't added anything. (Edit: did get a lighter tripod!)

The darkroom is another story. Just finishing my 5th darkroom and it's the nicest one yet, with the additional equipment & supplies to make hand coated UV exposed contact prints.

It's what's behind the camera that makes the difference.

Have a digital camera...that’s a different story.

Jim Jones · Dec 29, 2021

It never ends. I upgraded from a Kodak folding camera to a used Mercury II in 1951. Within two years I had a new Leica iiif (over a month's pay!) and several lenses. by 1962 the lure of SLR resulted in a Praktica FX3 and then a Nikon F outfit which sufficed for decades. These were supplemented by a 4x5 NewVue (yuk!), several 4x5 and 5x7 press and view cameras, and finally an 8x10 Kodak 2D which made pinhole photography almost respectable. I experimented with a modest digital camera in 2004 and broke free of analog photography after a move into smaller quarters 4 years ago made a darkroom impractical. Darkrooms followed a similar course from 1964 until recently.

DREW WILEY · Dec 29, 2021

What I needed to get along the entire first decade was simple : a basic Chromega 4x5 color enlarger with a single enlarging lens, and a Sinar 4x5 monorail itself with a single lens, plus meter, film holders etc. Then on the wet side, a simple developing drums in a converted darkroom, and necessary accessories including a Condit film registration punch and frame. All color work at first. That was adequate for exhibitions, print sales, pretty much everything I wanted to do, at least until I had the itch for a way more serious darkroom and more camera and lens options - and I have been accumulating, and even personally fabricating, more and more gear ever since. Now I'm at a tipping point strategizing how to gradually sell off some of the surplus or duplicate gear before the moss grows on both itself and me.

GKC · Dec 30, 2021

Starting with an 8x10 and contact printing, I avoided the entire enlarger issue.
A lot of gear carried over from my 35mm kit. My bride made me a dark cloth using the instructions from Steve Simmons Using The View Camera
The film holders I bought used, I think they were three wooden ones for $40 or two plastics for $35 from Clayton Classic Camera, which ran an ad in Shutterbug.
I saved up for a 14" Commercial Ektar on the recommendation of a local old time photographer,
For printing I used a sheet of heavy glass from a Pier 1 Import shop,
Newlywed, I was on a super tight budget, it took a very understanding bride and maybe a year to accumulate the minimum. Since then I've upgraded and added items every year as the need arised.

Deleted member 88956 · Dec 30, 2021

LF is so different a style of shooting, you may be referring to those who may have misread what it can do, and especially how it handles. Then got disappointed with a first kit, yet were sure to expect great results, which possibly drove them to continue on the quick "upgrade" path without spending time making the first simple kit work correctly in their hands.

I started with Toyo 45AII, 4 holders and two lenses (had already owned a spot meter), and did not add to it for at least 5 years. Things are different now, 20 years later, but as for how fast it took to build a kit is more than an open question. It can be done overnight with single purchase, no matter how basic or expanded it is, or it never ends. For me it never will, but that is more due to some urge to change things than actual need to fit a need.

ruilourosa · Dec 30, 2021

25 years and i have yet to finish...

MARTIE · Dec 30, 2021

Equipment specifications, market availability, material condition and purchase price are all part of the bundle. The hardest part, especially these days, is finding all 4 together.
Sacrifices will inevitably need to be made or a great deal of patience and a barrel load of luck!

RalphLambrecht · Dec 30, 2021

MARTIE said:
It has taken me literally decades to build up my large (& medium) format camera gear and darkroom kit. On one hand, I believe the LF journey has become more accessible but on the other there is a scarcity of good, high-end professional gear, affordable or otherwise.
years and more than one attempt.
And while I admire the enthusiasm and understand the frustration of those (re-)starting, it surprises me how quickly they expect to get up and running, with high expectations, and that, in an ever decreasing market.

So, how long did it take you to get your 'ideal' camera and darkroom kit?

And what do you believe are realistic expectations and time scale of someone setting out on their LF journey, today?

Paul Howell · Dec 30, 2021

55 years and counting. Got my first LF camera a Speed Graphic in 1966, used our College 4x5 enlarger, in Air Force, although a photographer not allowed to print personal work, but we had a darkroom in our hobby center. Final got a 4X5 Burk and James enlarger, added a Crown, later Brand 4X5 view camera, then traded in the Burk and James for a Omega D3. That was 30 years ago, now looking to upgrade my lens, I have Kodak and Wollensake 135, 150 and 162, thinking about Nikon, Fuji, maybe Topcon. Then again, maybe not.

GKC · Dec 30, 2021

MARTIE said:
It has taken me literally decades to build up my large (& medium) format camera gear and darkroom kit. On one hand, I believe the LF journey has become more accessible but on the other there is a scarcity of good, high-end professional gear, affordable or otherwise.

And while I admire the enthusiasm and understand the frustration of those (re-)starting, it surprises me how quickly they expect to get up and running, with high expectations, and that, in an ever decreasing market.

So, how long did it take you to get your 'ideal' camera and darkroom kit?

And what do you believe are realistic expectations and time scale of someone setting out on their LF journey, today?

The decrease in accessibility and scarcity I think relate to the digital tide that saw a tremendous amouunt of professional gear becoming surplus and sold off at affordible prices.
Most of those deals are gone and what remains is mostly new(expensive) or antique, or simply unobtainable---out of production with not enough demand to create a profitable market.
But there is still used gear to be had, you just have to look for it and unless you stumble upon a complete kit from a retiring hobbyist, that's going to take time to aquire the neccessary puzzle parts.
How much time is anybody's guess.
To "...get up and running, with high expectations..." depends on the vision, skill, talent and education of the shooter. The History of Photography is full of famous photographers who relied on very modest outfits.

Larry the sailor · Jan 4, 2022

I had completely gotten away from photography about 1995. My camera and minimalist darkroom gear all got put away. In 2014 I got the urge to get back into photography and bought a mid range Canon DSLR. While digging out my old photo gear for stuff that could use with the new DSLR I pulled my old 1981 vintage Canon AE-1 and Beseler Printmaker enlarger out and decided it was time to try that again, so I did. A few months later I had sent The AE-1 off for a CLA. While I was waiting on it to come back I stumbled across a very nice Yashicamat 124 at a local thrift store and gave it a new home. Now I needed a enlarger to do 6X6. I could have updated my little Beseler but found a Saunders enlarger at the local camera store pretty cheap. We were all very happy together.
Then some months later, whilst perusing the classifieds on this forum, I found an add for a Mamiya RB67 kit at great price. A deal was struck and I had a RB67 with 3 lenses. I now needed to again update my enlarger to handle 6X7 as I wasn't happy with the Saunders and I had been unable to find a negative carrier for 6X7. Fortune smiled on me and I soon found a Craigslist add for a Beseler 45MX along with a bunch of darkroom kit advertised for $450. Drove halfway across the state of Oklahoma prepared to try to talk the young lady down on price but willing to pay up if it was in acceptable condition. Met up with the seller and she had a BUNCH of stuff to go with the enlarger. Pretty much an entire large format capable darkroom with extras, unfortunately the majority of the paper was unusable. We were barely able to pack it all into my 2 door Jeep Wrangler, good thing my wife had stayed home. I gave the seller an extra $50 and suggested her and her kids needed dinner and ice cream cones.
Once again my three cameras and I were happy.
It took a few weeks to fully inventory all the stuff I had bought. Big 4 blade easel, 20x24 print washer negative carriers odds and ends of Jobo gear Boxes and boxes of odds and ends. Boxes of expired 4x5 film, including 4 unopened boxes of Kodak Tech Pan.. I figured I would sell the stuff I didn't have an immediate use for so over the next couple of months I set set to looking for prices on Ebay and elsewhere. Even sold a few items on the classifieds here.
Of course I already had some interest in the LF world and now suddenly I had a bunch of 4X5 kit, really just needed a camera to put it to use, hmmm.... while looking at values of the stuff I had planned to sell I found a number of decent deals on 4X5 cameras and lenses. Bigger than expected year end bonus came along and I had motive, money and opportunity all at the same time so I picked up a minty Toyoview 45AX Filed camera with 3 very nice Nikkor lenses. Bought some film from B&H and haven't looked back.
This all took place over the span of about 3 years.

film_man · Jan 5, 2022

Large format was the quickest I ever did. One day in 2020 I decided I want a 4x5. I had a budget in mind, so went to the intrepid website and ordered a new one plus whatever accessories. Then went to ebay and ordered a 90 and a 180 lens. 6 weeks later the camera and everything else arrived. Job done.

35mm is another story. I bought my own first camera with my own money in 2001. 18 years and a good 25 or so cameras later I finally got my hands on a Leica M4. The only 35mm thing I see my ever adding is another Leica, either the M7 or the MP.

Medium format...well...I started on that drug in 2009. Mamiya, Bronica, Hasselblad, Pentax, Rollei...15 or so cameras came and went until in 2019 I finally sold the last one. Which of course I now regret so I'm back to looking for one. So I guess that journey still hasn't ended.

Craig75 · Jan 5, 2022

I think mine took a few months.

Got a cheap technar and a walker titan and a uv circuit board printer. I did want a carbon infinity or geared arca Swiss and looked for a while but in the end I enjoyed wide angle 5x4 point and shoot with technar - lack of front rise is a pain tho. If I were to do it again I'd just get a 5x7 point and shoot.

All I do is contact prints tho and I'm not interested in doing enlargements so it was quick and simple set up.

I did end up wanting and getting pin registration set up and that did take a long time and money to find.

MARTIE · Jan 5, 2022

Craig75 said:
I think mine took a few months.

Got a cheap technar and a walker titan and a uv circuit board printer. I did want a carbon infinity or geared arca Swiss and looked for a while but in the end I enjoyed wide angle 5x4 point and shoot with technar - lack of front rise is a pain tho. If I were to do it again I'd just get a 5x7 point and shoot.

All I do is contact prints tho and I'm not interested in doing enlargements so it was quick and simple set up.

I did end up wanting and getting pin registration set up and that did take a long time and money to find.

Like you, I was lucky on my Technar price-wise, it has a 75mm f5.6 Schneider SA. However, I had to wait a very, very a long time to find that one. I've only had it about 3 or 4 years now.

Craig75 · Jan 5, 2022

MARTIE said:
Like you, I was lucky on my Technar price-wise, it has a 75mm f5.6 Schneider SA. However, I had to wait a very, very a long time to find that one. I've only had it about 3 or 4 years now.

I think if I were to get a point and shoot now I'd look

https://chroma.camera/product/technical-snapshot-handheld-multi-format-system/

Or one of those 3d printed willtravel in 8x10 or 5x7

Or possibly a walker 5x7

But that's the limit of my large format shenanigans I think so it's a quick simple set up.

MARTIE · Jan 5, 2022

Craig75 said:
I think if I were to get a point and shoot now I'd look

https://chroma.camera/product/technical-snapshot-handheld-multi-format-system/

Or one of those 3d printed willtravel in 8x10 or 5x7

Or possibly a walker 5x7

But that's the limit of my large format shenanigans I think so it's a quick simple set up.

With the sale of your Linhof Technar you should be able to buy all of the other camera's in your list with the exception of the Walker 5x7.

Philippe-Georges · Jan 5, 2022

When, in 1981, I finally got all the necessarily papers, diploma's, establishment certificate and all the (f***n-) rest to get started, my father, who, in the beginning, wanted me to become brewery engineer (I was intended to be the 4th generation brewer in the family), gave me an one year old used Hasselblad kit so I could start (and leave him alone). The original owner went bankrupt, so it was rather 'cheap'...
After 4 years working in several musea as a trainee, I plunged into the jungle and became a self employed photographer (a career which lasted for 35 years).
Starting from that moment, it took me 5 years to expand that Hasselblad kit from one body, 2 lenses and 2 film holders into a vast and genuine professional equipement which I still have and use to my full satisfaction.
Building a dark room and 'developing' it till what it is now, actually never ceased...

BradS · Jan 5, 2022

MARTIE said:
It has taken me literally decades....
So, how long did it take you to get your 'ideal' camera and darkroom kit?
....

The one lesson that I wish I had learned much earlier in life than I did is....
There is no such thing as the perfect camera (or perfect anything really). Don't waste a lot of time and money trying to find it. It is better to be happy with good enough.

My first large format kit was a 4x5 Crown Graphic with the stock 135mm lens, a handful of film holders and a box of film - all acquired in less than seven days. After nearly 20 years doing 4x5 and many, too many, other LF camera outfits, the stock Crown Graphic with it's much under appreciated 135mm Optar has proven to be good enough for about 90% of my large format needs.

Today, I have a only 4x5 Crown Graphic, an Ebony RW45 and a 4x5 pinhole camera. The Ebony was the third 4x5 camera I bought. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that many, many, many other LF cameras came and went after it. I could have, should have, and really wish I had, stopped searching for the ideal camera when I got the Ebony, just a year into my 4x5 journey....hopefully, someone else can benefit form my experience.

the darkroom...I guess it took me a a few months to locate an enlarger that was suitable for 4x5 and that was available within a reasonable distance of home but since I already had a working darkroom, that was really all I needed to add.

mshchem · Jan 5, 2022

Decades on everything. I try to pickup stuff when people are wanting to be rid of it. Prices on Ebay have gone nuts, mostly dealers now

Craig75 · Jan 5, 2022

MARTIE said:
With the sale of your Linhof Technar you should be able to buy all of the other camera's in your list with the exception of the Walker 5x7.

Yes clearly I'm not finished at all despite pretending to myself and everyone else that I am... utterly shameless.

Sirius Glass · Jan 5, 2022

I bought my Pacemaker Speed Graphic and Graflex Model D over the internet in very few emails from a retired Graphic and Graflex repairman who was selling off his personal collection. I asked him for his best of each and both of them arrived in as near as pristine condition as those cameras can come.

How long to build up your LF camera and darkroom kit?

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