How long does paper last?

[Mats_A]

Sorry if this has been discussed before but could not find it.
Is it wise to buy Ilford MG paper used? On a certain auction site you can find people dumping their stock of Ilford paper.
I suppose paper goes bad like film does. Or does it. I remember sometimes using really old paper found in some darkroom drawer and it turned out alright.

I don't have any paper here now so I must ask: Are there a Best Before date on paper boxes like on film?

r

 

[Ian Grant]

Depends on how it's been stored.

Some papers last well without any major loss in quality and should keep for at least 5 years, the first signs of deterioration are loss of speed and contrast. Some emulsions keep better than others.

Ian

 

[polyglot]

And some of them (all the old Agfa I've seen, for example) go foggy. Depends on storage of course.

Fog doesn't really matter with film - you print for longer and maybe at a higher grade, but you get a good image. Fogged paper is good only for the bin.

 

[Mats_A]

Are there a Best Before date on papers like on film?

r

 

[Slixtiesix]

Unfortunately there is no expiry date on papers, but I have heard several times that you can mail the batch number to Ilford and they will tell you the production date. I have made bad experience with buying paper from Ebay. A package of Multigrade IV was fogged and though it was still usable it was not very good any more. I think classic fiber papers, especially graded ones, have a very long lifetime, but multigrade RC, regardless from which manufacturer, has a shorter storage life.

Regards, Benjamin

 

[werra]

Multigrade RC Agfa papers die very quickly, have had bad experiences only with them.

 

[Ian Grant]

Of all the papers I find Ilford's last the longest, Kodak's VC papers less well but their Graded Bromide papers exceptionally well, I have some from the early 60's.

Sterling had the worst keeping properties along with some Oriental papers (when they still amde their own).

Ian

 

[Steve Smith]

It's a bit of a lottery really. I have bought quite old paper which has been fine and newer paper which has had an image of a black cat in a coal cellar at night pre-exposed onto it.


Steve.

 

[Stan160]

Only paper I've had a problem with is Kodak Polymax RC with a process by date 12/2007. It's been showing a very slight mottling since I bought it in mid 2008, but was good enough for proofing, it's now reached the point where it's become unusable. Other Kentmere and Ilford papers bought used, or clearance stock, between 5 and 11 years old are all still fine.

Ian

 

[Mats_A]

So If I understand this correctly, you can buy Ilford paper and there is a good chance it is usable.
If only I was rich enough not to have to worry about things like this .

r

 

[clayne]

Only paper I've had a problem with is Kodak Polymax RC with a process by date 12/2007. It's been showing a very slight mottling since I bought it in mid 2008, but was good enough for proofing, it's now reached the point where it's become unusable. Other Kentmere and Ilford papers bought used, or clearance stock, between 5 and 11 years old are all still fine.

Ian

Pretty much the same as you. Only paper that I've had issues with is Polymax Fineart (FB). Totally fogged.

Do remember though that one can still use fogged papers with lith printing.

 

[sandermarijn]

I once bought two 50 sheet packs of Agfa FB paper on the 'national' auction site (marktplaats). It turned out to be heavily fogged to a uniform grey

On the other hand, 15 years ago I purchased (new) a box of Ilford Multigrade IV RC. This paper saw 15 increasingly hot summers but still looks perfectly fine. (I prefer FB paper which is why the RC is still around.)

Maybe unexposed FB paper is more vulnerable to decay than RC? Could be anything really.

 

[ishutteratthethought]

This image was printed on nearly 40 year old Agfa Brovira paper.
www.apug.org/gallery1/showimage.php...&direction=DESC&imageuser=24018&cutoffdate=-1

Not sure how it was stored.
Steve

 

[ozphoto]

Think it's a lottery - sometimes you'll strike gold, other times coal.
I picked up 100 sheets Agfa Brovira 3.5x5" from late 60s early 70s - each piece was perfect. Also grabbed some 8x10" - totally useless.
If you buy from anywhere take into account the chance it will be useless and pay what you feel is fair. Personally, I wouldn't be paying some of the prices I've seen some go for - why spend $25 when I could pick up new stuff for the same price knowing it will be ok?

On the other hand, I'm happy to part with a fiver and cross my fingers........

 

[Willie Jan]

I bought ilford paper which was 4 years old (a whole rolll of 1 meter wide) and also was fogged.

I personnally found out that baryta paper last longer than RC.
But temperature is the most important factor. A hot summer with 40 degrees at the attic will kill your paper/film

 

[naugastyle]

Like everyone else here, I think you never really know. I bought a sealed box of Agfa MCC off ebay, the seller thought it was between 3-4 years old, and it's just beautiful. I got a bunch of Emaks/J&C Nuance from another APUG member that is around 2 years old and again, beautiful. Also a small amount of Ilford MGIV FB from Craigslist, old enough that the seller had no recollection of when it was purchased and how much was left in the box, and it was also just fine.

Multigrade RC Agfa papers die very quickly, have had bad experiences only with them.

Well, that concerns me a bit. How quick is quickly?

 

[photomem]

I bought two 25 sheet packs of way expired Kodak Polymax Fine Art DW FB Glossy (Say that 5 times fast) at Dury's in January. I finally got around to using them last night.. they were absolutely beautiful. So, this morning I called Dury's and ordered the rest of their stock at 10.00 per pack. I also have a stock of Polycontrast RC that expired about 6 yrs ago. Of the 1000 sheets I have, two were fogged (so far). So, I think Kodak sticks in there quite well.

 

[lak]

Couple of weeks ago I used "Forte" fiber paper from 1986. No problems, I was really suprised. Photos were good and the white which I left around picture was white at the end. I had one of photos in a small contest and it got good points. Only negative thing was that papers had got stuck and I had to work slowly and gently to get them apart. -L.

 

[Ektagraphic]

I contacted Ilford and they around 3 years after purchase is optimal.....Now here is what wowed me! I asked why the don't put exp. dates like they put on the film.....they said they started to but all of the dealers freaked out and they had to stop....that to me is kind of scary......

 

[nworth]

It depends on the paper and how it was stored. The newer papers seem to expire more quickly than some of the older formulations. Heat and atmospheric pollution take their toll. Sometimes the paper mostly slows down and loses a bit of contrast. That can be dealt with. Sometimes (always, eventually), there is an unacceptable increase in fog. I've used Ilford papers that were two years out of date and were fine; I've had others that were unusable when they were barely expired. It's hard to predict. Unfortunately, it is also hard to tell how old the fresh paper you buy is. I've bought "fresh" paper that was too old to use. If you want to be safe, buy fresh paper from a reputable dealer who has a high stock turnover (lots of business). But if you see a bargin on expired paper, and it's not too old or abused, it may be worth taking the chance. Usually it's OK, at least for a few more months.

 

[desi8888]

my friend sold me his focomat and gave me several boxes of ilford fb paper which he does not remember how old it is. if it has gone bad what would i see?

 

[Ian Grant]

Poor quality prints, fogging, lack of contrast, weak blacks, very slow, patchiness, mold

Papers keep quite well particularly Ilford, I have Ilford FB papers from the 70's that still print OK, so try them.

Ian

 

[Jeff Kubach]

It is hard to say. If kept in a freezer it will last a long time.

Jeff

 

[Rodex]

I have found some paper which said "Made in West-Germany" Haven't tried it yet but I don't have high expectations

 

[Hexavalent]

Found in a box, hidden under the stairs since who-knows-when:

30 year + old kodabromide, still prints okay, just a faint veil - lucky me! I loved that stuff.
Old Ilfospeed - useless: probably the 'built in' developing agents have been at work over the years - it's visibly fogged/mottled even before development.