how I hate paterson reels

timeUnit · Jan 13, 2006

I like the paterson tanks. They're easy to fill and I'm pretty used to them. The reels work OK on 120 film and 24 exp 135 film. But with 36 exp 135 film it's just awful. I'd say that 25% of the times, my rolls get stuck or very difficult to insert. Today, a stuck film started a chain of events that ruined the film in the end. This does not happen often, but it makes me very mad. These were pictures of some importance to me.

Cut to the chase: are there stainless steel reels for paterson tanks? Where can I get them?

If not -- is it difficult to fill the stainless steel tanks? I don't want to fill the tank in the dark. Is anyone filling stainless tanks with the lights on? Are you compensating for the longer filling times?

Thank you, apuggers, for your advice!

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 13, 2006

Paterson reels need to be completely dry to work. You might want to own extras, since you can buy them cheaply, but frankly, I don't like them either.

SS tanks are not difficult to fill. If you have one with a lid that is slow filling, then change it to a Kindermann lid, and be sure to tip the tank as you fill. How long it takes to fill depends on the size of the tank. If I'm using the 6x120 roll tank and a developer with a short development time, for instance, I'll fill it in the dark and use a lifter rod, then continue with the daylight cap on and the lights on. This isn't necessary for, say, a 2x120 tank.

KenS · Jan 13, 2006

paterson reels

Hi.

As David proclaimed, the paterson reels have to be "dry", but they also have to be clean. Cleaning dissasembled reel with your mother-in-law's toothbrush after a soak in dilute bleach (Na hypochlorite) solution, does a wonderful job of removing the "gunk" that builds up over time. The best technique is to wash the reels in the hotest of water after the film has been removed.

If you are in a "real" hurry to re-load and continue processin before you can get the reels dry enough to prevent sticking, emerse the reel and load the film in a pail of water (at temperature of course)... ie load the film underwater.

Consider this a pre-soak time.

Ken

The absolute BEST and EASIEST reels for 35 mm are the ones made in England by Hewes.. while I don't do that much 35 mm anymore, I have about eight... couldn't live without them

Curt · Jan 13, 2006

I might as well pass on this extremely valuable information. I was told in photo school to ditch the ball bearings in the Patterson reels. There are small bearings that are supposed to grab the film as you twist it onto the roll. It can grab and stick etc.. You can pop them out without destroying the reels. Keep them if you want or if you have to sell them later. It made a big difference for me. Before I hated them.

Curt

Earl Dunbar · Jan 13, 2006

I agree with David, and I don't like Paterson reels, either.

One thing you could do is fill a SS tank before you load the film. Then turn out the lights, wind on film, and finally place the reel(s) in the tank, pop on the lid. I always used this technique when using a multi-tank reel and procesing multiple reels at one time.

Sean · Jan 13, 2006

Best luck I have with the plastic reels is 35mm using a film extractor or popping your camera back before the film is totally unwound. I then have a short lead which I can seat into the bearings, I cut the lights twist the reel, pull out some more film and repeat..

jd callow · Jan 13, 2006

I'm in the minority. I have 20+ each of both patterson and ss I prefer the patterson. They need to be dry and you need to keep the wheels parallel.

I keep the ss around as back-up.

Daniel Lawton · Jan 13, 2006

My frustration with Paterson reels is equally as high as yours except I have no problems with 35mm, its the 120 that kills me. Actually I've never sucessfully loaded a 120 roll onto a Patterson reel. It completely ruins the roll every time, dry or not. It may have something to do with my motor skills (or lack thereof) but I find SS reels to be 100% easier to load. Plus I can do another developing session right afterwards without having to use a hairdryer or some other creative method to ensure my reels are bone dry.

josephaustin · Jan 13, 2006

I love my patterson reels, its all I use for 35mm, and 120. I used to have some trouble with 36 exp rolls, untill I started to try this:
Unroll the film completly, and load it from the last frame!
It might sound trivial, but it doesent bind up on me at all, and I have had no problems since. I do keep my reels clean, and let them dry before each use as well. I do the same thing with 120, and also have no problems.

Changeling1 · Jan 14, 2006

David is right about the reels needing to be COMPLETELY dry before loading. When I was processing quite a bit of 35 and 120 I would give each reel, following a thorough paper-toweling, a full minute of blow-dryer heat on each side before using.
Only a minute amount of moisture on the reel is enough to wreck havoc in the "loading closet"!

Claire Senft · Jan 14, 2006

I use my tanks in the dark. I use 4 tanks, prewet,developer,stop and fix. I use SS tanks and reels in a water bath with a temp control valve and with the reel(s) on a lifting rod. This method allows for quick and uniform entrance and exit to the solutions. For agitation I lift the rod twisting to the right and lower while twisting to the left. This gives good temp control and eveness of agitation.

There is, in my opinioin, one place where a plastic tank is superior: C41 bleach can corrode SS tank welds and maybe even the body of SS if the bleach is stored in the tank.

Lee Shively · Jan 14, 2006

I haven't used Paterson stuff in years but I never had any problems with loading the reels as long as they were clean and dry. Taking a toothbrush to them with some Bon Ami cleaned them up fast.

But, really, I think the consensus would be that stainless is generally a better alternative to plastic.

wfe · Jan 14, 2006

I use nothing but Paterson reels and rarely have problems. They must be clean as others have said and one thing that will cause problems with 35mm is if the end of the film is cut through the middle of the sprocket holes. This almost always causes it to bind. No problem with 120 since there are no sprocket holes and much less film to wind onto the reel.

MattCarey · Jan 14, 2006

After I started seeing some problems with my Paterson reels, I cleaned them...I put them in the dishwasher for a nice long hot cleansing.

I wouldn't recommend doing regular dishes at the same time.

Matt

ooze · Jan 14, 2006

You can get SS Hewes reels that fit Paterson (and Jobo) tanks from Retro Photographic (www.retrophotographic.co.uk) in the UK. Actually, I bought my first SS Hewes reels a few days ago. I got a pair of 35mm reels and one 120 reel, just to see whether I can get along with them. Familiarising myself took a whole evening (partly because I went down a totally wrong path first), but I cracked it eventually. I developed two rolls of 120 film yesterday. Loading the Hewes reel was very easy. But then trying to load the 2nd roll onto the Jobo reel was an absolute nightmare, it just kept getting stuck (as usual). Well, I'll be buying a few more Hewes reels next week. However, I have to admit that I don't clean the plastic reels as thoroughly as one should possibly do (brushes etc.).

timeUnit · Jan 14, 2006

ooze said:
You can get SS Hewes reels that fit Paterson (and Jobo) tanks from Retro Photographic (www.retrophotographic.co.uk) in the UK. Actually, I bought my first SS Hewes reels a few days ago.

Thanks! You're a lifesaver!

Thanks everyone else for your insights! I do clean my reels, and they were very dry. It was totally my fault that the film got ruined in the end, but it would never had happened if it wasn't for the film getting stuck in the first place. (Boohoo...)

I have done the practising bit, I have developed about 200 rolls in the Paterson tanks. Still, the darn thing gets stuck from time to time, and I'm sick of it.

srs5694 · Jan 14, 2006

Others have given good advice. I'm one of those who prefers SS reels, and particularly Hewes reels, which I find trivially easy to load compared to plastic Paterson or AP reels. (One exception: If you try to load a SS reel backwards, it won't work too well. Check it visually to see how it's supposed to spool on and then familiarize yourself with the feel of it so you can identify the correct direction in the dark.) Of course, if you've not used SS reels before, you should practice in light and then with your eyes closed or in the dark before using it for a real roll of film.

One point I'd like to add is that SS tanks generally use less solution than do plastic ones. My generic SS tank (bought secondhand on eBay) uses 250ml for a single roll of 35mm film. My AP plastic tank (bought new) uses 325ml for a single roll of film, and in practice I generally used 350ml because that makes for easier measuring, particularly of 1:1 solutions. Less solution equals lower cost and less pollution. My SS tank also leaks less than my plastic AP tank, although I get the impression there's a lot of sample-to-sample variation on this point.

Ronald Moravec · Jan 14, 2006

Keep Photo-Flo and wetting agents off the reel. It will get sticky over time and you can`t clean it well. Bleach helps. You don`t know used ones have been.

Wash down the film after it is hanging with wetting agent. Use an ear syringe from the drug store, but wash it well first , before and after each use.

Next time cut off what will not load and store in the dark. Develope separately. You will loose only one unknown frame. Course it will be the best one!

Clip the leading corners to ease the film after it is about 2/3`s loaded.

Matthijs · Jan 14, 2006

To make loading of 120 film on the plastic Patterson reels easier; try to clip the corners of the film. The film will pass the bearings easier, but it's harder to position the the film over the 'leaders' of the reel.

This works for me since my main problem with the Patterson reels used to be that the film was very difficult to pull beyond the bearings. It would get stuck, I'd get aggresive and pull too hard, resulting the film to crumble and the corners to bend, making it next to impossible to load the film.

leeturner · Jan 14, 2006

I junked a 36 35mm and a 120 to practice loading Paterson reels. Started off in daylight and then practiced in the dark. I do unspool most of the roll before starting and it seems to help.

MattKing · Jan 14, 2006

jdef said:
It's so strange to read such disparate reports of the same equipment. I have Paterson reels, various SS reels, and Jobo reels, and have never had a problem with any of them, except the time I tried to load a wet Paterson reel. Maybe you could try loading your reel with a junk roll in roomlight?

Jay

I think the main difference between the plastic reels and the SS reels is that the plastic reels are less rigid, and therefore your hand motion must be such that the sides remain parallel at all times. I have trouble doing that, and as a result the sides of the plastic reels flex, and I just cannot load them.

If your hand motions naturally keep the sides parallel, then the plastic reels are more likely to work for you.

Matt

KarenB · Jan 14, 2006

I have good luck with the Patterson reels. For 35mm, I set my camera to leave the leader out on rewind. Then I am able to clip the leader carefully rounding the corners and not cutting through the sprocket holes in daylight so I can see what I'm doing. After that I push the clipped leader back into the roll and continue on in the dark as usual. If the film seems like it might stick while loading, I gently place my thumbs on the outer edges of the film against the flat area where the film enters the reel, then kind of jiggle the reel back and forth (this is hard to describe) to give it an extra little nudge. I've haven't ruined a roll yet, but occasionally there are marks on the film along the sprocket holes that do not affect a print. As mentioned above, I clip (round) the corners on 120mm as well, but do it in the dark since there are no sprocket holes to worry about.

I found it interesting to learn that the SS tanks use a smaller volume of chemicals, though!

Karen

fschifano · Jan 17, 2006

Ditto what some other folks here have said about the reels being completely clean and dry. Working in a changing bag, especially in summer for me, proved to be a real problem. My hands would sweat and that's enough moisture to gum up the works.

Gerald Koch · Jan 17, 2006

It takes me 10 seconds to find a single reel SS tank. I start the timer as I start filling and start emptying at the end of the development time. Never have any problems.

df cardwell · Jan 17, 2006

Steel reels, easy from day one... 1968
Critical: don't be cheap.
Nikor and Kinderman equally wonderful, HEWES the Best Ever.

Paterson & Jobo: awful.

oh, well.

how I hate paterson reels

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