How Have the Works of Older Photographers Held Up Over Time?

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My beginnings were in art (painting, printing, etc) and the techniques and technologies haven't changed much over the centuries. Perhaps the greatest single technological development in painting occurred during my lifetime....the invention of acrylic paints, but even that drastic change had little to no effect on the actual images. You could still use the old techniques and materials, and most people, including artists, would be hard pressed to tell an acrylic from a water colour or an oil painting if it's executed properly. In other words, the new technology did not add anything to the existing artists' toolbox. You still grind the pigments the same way, and burn the tree the same way to make charcoal.

With photography the changes have been immense, especially over the last 2 decades. When you look at an original print made by someone like Edward Weston, my favorite photographer, it's usually a small print. Many of his photos had no enlargement made to them at all, they were contact printed from modest size negatives. This is a different subject, but the switch to digital imaging cost a lot of people their livelihood. When was the last time you saw someone actually painting a large billboard w/ a brush and paint? I do remember that day, as it was in my neighborhood in San Francisco, and even 35 years ago it seemed oddly out of place in the surrounding setting.

So I'm wondering if the works of Adams, Bresson, etc would be seen in a different light if they were working today, and at the same scale that they originally worked in? Adams is the ringer in here, as he normally worked large w/ large cameras anyway. How important is scale to a photograph? It's always been difficult to get a painting show if your work was not "gallery size". It's even harder for photographers. If Weston were showing his new work today, would it be appreciated, or would people simply smile bemusedly at the small photos? I keep thinking back to that George Beckman painting that stopped me dead in my tracks in a hallway at SFMOMA. To be truthful, if it had been only 1/3 the size, it would not have had the same effect.
 
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Moopheus

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I don't think the scale would be a problem. Partly because photographers are as likely to make an impression by publication in books or magazines than in gallery shows. The gallery show might be important for recognition by the wider art world, but other photographers are checking you out in the bookstore, or these days, online. Consider the acceptance of Vivien Maier, who was unknown before a few years ago, and worked in a classic street-photographer style. And there have been exhibits of prints made from her film, and mostly in what we would think of as within the range of normal print sizes.
 

bdial

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People still revere, collect and emulate the work of Adams, Bresson, Weston and many others from that time, and their work stands up well against much of what has come since. So I don't know that they wouldn't stand up now.

But, I think one key factor is that they were ground-breaking at the time they started to become known. If you were to put them in a 2015 context, that ground that they broke is already well trodden. So the expectation might be that they would be going in new directions from what is common now.

For the size thing, I think it may be important for those who don't take the time to really see the image in front of them. Certainly huge prints have become pretty common, if you're working digitally, it seems like you aren't really serious unless you have a 20 inch wide printer to output things on. But my experience has been that small images are accepted too, if there is something there to begin with.

IMHO
 

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If the image is good enough it will withstand the test of time.
 

snapguy

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art

The sea change in art was when the art establishment (including the government and academics) finally began to listen to the Impressionists and change the mouldy old view that art was about drawing stories of religion or history, that you had to draw a religious or ancient Greek or Roman subject or it was not art. The Impressionist art (meaning, crude unfinished snapshots of modern day life) could paint a laundress yawning while at her washtub. The Old Guard thought that was pornography, not art. Technique, supplies and equipment are beside the point.
"If you can't make it good, make it big" has been around since I've been a photographer and that is more than 60 years.
 

gzinsel

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Prints, (etching, lithographs, off-set) where always quite small, bookish size or top size 18"x24". Paper manufacturers had a lot to say about (size). Up until mid 1960's with the print explosions from the off shoot of Tamerind master printers and the east coast ULAE printers did prints-go supper large. I think mass production technologies play a large part ( preparing papers, inks, rollers, processing stuff-. . . .. similar could be said in photography. I.e. going from 8x10 to 11x14 is not so difficult, but 16x20 to 20x24 is quite an immense project for a printer and his darkroom. today most digital images are seen on a screen/monitor. now quite small. I think the larger issue today is . . .you do not need to go to a physical gallery to see works of art, you can consume them on your monitor. Walter Benjamin, art work in the age of mechanical reproduction, talks a lot about the aura of an image. I think you can start there.
 

benjiboy

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The work of many of the leading photographers of the last fifty years will still be highly regarded when the work of the majority of to-days self proclaimed "Artists" has disappeared into obscurity and has been forgotten.
 
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Yes, I thought about the book and online viewing aspect of it. But before getting into this game, more years ago than I will admit to, I made a pilgrimage across the US to see what the real works looked like in person, vs in a book, which is where most artists got their ideas. These days, people "read" a photograph pretty much as they do a painting, so size helps in that regard. New Mexico and Chicago had some really good pieces in their collections.

I don't know, I really think that if people were aware of how small the prints were from their favorite photographers (or, if you prefer viewing good forgeries, many of Dali's paintings) they would be quite surprised. Scale probably comes into into at some point. It's always a treacherous minefield when we view art outside of the time that it was created, but I am just a little dumbfounded by such small pieces making such a stir. Not to degrade what anyone was doing. Weston's images were fantastic w/o any enlarging. Perhaps he felt that the image was as big as it needed to be. But I never, ever, not once, met a painter that didn't long for a bigger studio to make bigger images in.
 
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blansky

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I think all great works stands the test of time, however at the time there were very very few photographers. Now almost everyone has a camera.

Because of that the "novelty" of a photograph has lost itself in the noise of trillions of them.

I do think that the photographs stand up, but is anyone really looking.

Perhaps it's like you were the first person to own a Porsche in your town. It was a work of art and people all stopped to look at it.

It's now 10 years later and there are dozens roaming around. Your Porsche is still a work of art, but it's impact is greatly diminished and barely garners a second look.
 

Sirius Glass

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The works of Adams, Bresson, Weston, and Dorthea Lange still hold their own quite well IMNSHO*.










*In My Not So Humble Opinion
 

Moopheus

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But, I think one key factor is that they were ground-breaking at the time they started to become known. If you were to put them in a 2015 context, that ground that they broke is already well trodden. So the expectation might be that they would be going in new directions from what is common now.

Yeah, it's hard to say, what would we make of, say, Walker Evans, today if we were seeing him for the first time, when he is one of the formative influences of the context we would be judging him against. We'd probably say, that's cool but we've seen it before. We can't imagine what the context would be like if he hadn't been there. Like, you can listen to Louis Armstrong and enjoy his genius, but you can't have the experience of being in 1927 and hearing the West End Blues for the first time.
 

Vonder

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I think we'll see a void of photographers being remembered from here on out. Too many, and the world is awash in images. Nobody will be able to stand the test of time.

The classics, on the other hand, like HCB and Weston and Adams, will endure forever.

Face it. If photography is your chosen path to immortality you really picked a sucky time to be one.
 
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You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize the art world is in the process of swallowing up the photo world and spitting it out the other side. Work from a lot of the great photographers such as Weston and Adams isn't valued as highly relative to a lot of contemporary work. Just look around. Going into the future, as older people that grew up admiring Adams and Weston pass on, younger generations won't carry the torch. Eventually film will die too, so the connection people have to the process will go with it. You also have quality issues with some old photos. A lot of Adams work isn't all that sharp when you stick your nose in it. I don't think his work will have as much impact on future generations. I think Weston did it right with his contact prints. No one will ever question the quality of those, they just might forget who he is though.
 

Jim Jones

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Say it's not so!

It's so. Some of his negatives have been posthumously printed at unfortunately large sizes. They may have impact, but only at a distance. Weston never intended for his 8x10 photographs to be enlarged, and set up the camera accordingly. The extremely small apertures used for some of his macro photographs limited sharpness.
 

Ko.Fe.

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Yes, I also learned with paintings first, became interested about photography much later.

I like to look into the image in front of me, to be able to observe it without taking walking trip between left and right lower parts of it. :smile:
 

blansky

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Yes, I also learned with paintings first, became interested about photography much later.

I like to look into the image in front of me, to be able to observe it without taking walking trip between left and right lower parts of it. :smile:

True. But the size of a picture is really determined not by how much it sells for (bigger costs more so lets make it bigger) but instead by viewing distance.

Where a picture is going to be placed is really what should determine it's size. So I guess with monster mansions, and museums viewing distance being 10 feet or more, bigger is the order of the day.

When homes were more modest an 11 x 14 was probably plenty.
 
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