How hard is it to make color darkroom prints?

[Jedidiah Smith]

Well, I am faced with an interesting decision. I have the opportunity to purchase an Omega D5 Dichroic enlarger - and I'm wondering just how hard it is to make color prints in the darkroom.

So far I do B&W in the darkroom, and usually shoot slide film and have it scanned to print when I want color. However, I am really considering shooting C-41 color negs and then trying my hand at color printing. Is this a good choice? Do you think I will get anywhere near the quality of my slides that I've had scanned in and printed?

Thanks for any input and opinions. I've never done color darkroom work before. Neg sizes are 35mm (Minolta MD mount) and 6x7 (Mamiya RZ67).
Jed

 

[Nick Zentena]

If you are a displined worker it's not very hard. If you have good negatives it gets easier.

Also in the present market you can buy lots of items to make it even easier.

In some ways I find it easier then B&W. With B&W you've got a wide range of good results. With colour it's more likely to be right or wrong.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Color printing is not hard if you have the means of achieving good temperature control of all chemicals and wash water and have a power supply which is consistent. You can process color prints in trays, a slot-type processor is much more convenient (less need for chemicals, less need for space, less oxidization, less fumes and smell). In your own interests, you should pay close attention to ensuring there is forced ventilation in your darkroom (makeshift arrangements can be OK for b+w, not for color).

Regards,

David

 

[jd callow]

Developing an eye for proper colour balance is the part that seems to throw most people off. The mechanical effort of exposing and developing the paper is not difficult once you have your darkroom setup.

 

[Mick Fagan]

It is a viable proposition to do your own colour printing. When I started to do my own colour I was living in a remote area, had very few photographic contacts I could lean on for advice, the equipment I needed cost an arm and a leg.

I did it on the cheap with a Uni-drum and Uni-roller, then I moved to a water bath controlled by two fish tank heaters with the drum floating, then I moved onto a Jobo CPE2 with a lift, then I moved onto a Durst Printo roller transport machine.

I started out with colour printing filters in a very cheap B&W enlarger, moved to a Meopta 5 with a colour head, then onto an LPL 7700 with a dichroic head and currently a DeVere 4x5 with a dichroic head.

I don't really believe you will make it cheaper by doing it yourself, but the quality you should be able to attain, can be incredible.

Attention to detail is a requirement, if you cannot stick strictly to the correct procedures, you may not be a good contender for colour printing.

The cheapest and most effective way into colour printing from a film and paper point of view, would have to be the Jobo rotary processors.

The CPE2 can develop virtually all film up to 4x5" and paper up to 12x16".

Many of the Jobo film and paper drums are actually the same article with a different sticker on the outside.

Mick.

 

[Lee L]

One thing that you'll find helpful is a set of color print viewing filters, Kodak Publication R-25, Catalog # 150 0735 (on my old set). These are six cards with R, G, B, C, M, and Y filtration in values of 10, 20, and 40 cc units. They are very helpful for determining the amount and color of any corrections you should apply based on evaluating a test print. I'm sure there must be other similar kits available, and you can do the same thing with standard CP filters, just a bit less conveniently.

The first thing I do is zero in on density, then adjust filtration for color balance. You're not really playing with contrast adjustments in the same way as in B&W, so in that regard, it's a bit simpler, and as others have stated, in some ways there's a bit less leeway for expressive printing than in B&W if you're going for "realistic" results.

Lee

 

[Nick Zentena]

I was never able to get far with viewing filters. Maybe I didn't put enough effort into them. Is Kodak still making them? If you need viewing filters I think Ilford might make a set.

Even machine 8x10 and bigger are far more expensive then what I can manage. Pro printing would be even more money.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I also recommend viewing filters. I found them more useful than a color analyzer when I was doing color.

 

[Sparky]

I think filters are generally pretty helpful. When I'm getting close - I'll go in the direction of the color that seems to make the apparent print contrast 'pop' just a bit more. Or at least make things look 'less muddy'. That usually pays off pretty well.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Lee Filters make colour viewing cards and they are helpful to me.
Also making a colour ring around at the very start will help you understand colour and density and their relationships.
As others have pointed out getting the mechanics down is not too hard.
Mastering colour theory and practice is important.

 

[Lee L]

One quick tip on using color print viewing filters (and this applies to both prints and chromes in my experience): judge by mid-tones, especially nearly neutral midtones, not by highlights or shadows. Highlights tend to show more filter effect and shadows less, whereas the mid-tones tend to give you a more accurate indication of the needed adjustment.

I don't know if the Kodak viewing filter set is still made. I didn't find them on a quick product search at Kodak.com or at the B&H website. Good to hear that Lee makes a set.

I've not used a color analyser, but my take is that they are more useful if you already know where you're going, i.e. you have a known target such as a gray card, Macbeth Color Checker, or similar in the image or companion image made in the same lighting conditions at the same exposure, and you've calibrated to that standard.

Many color printing books and aids that come with enlargers have a color ring around chart or poster that would definitely be of use, especially when new to color printing. You might keep an eye open for one, and making your own at the outset as Bob Carnie recommends would be an excellent exercise.

Lee

 

[Nick Zentena]

Actually the newer [I guess post 1995?] analyzers are fairly good. Once calibrated to the paper I'll stick in any negative and go for it. They can be fooled. But once you've used them awhile you know the sort of negatives that will cause problems. Things like large areas of one color. Or mostly dark/light. You just need to work around the issue which isn't that hard really.

 

[Mike Wilde]

do-able, but less fun - more mechanical IMO than b&w

I run a DIY mix from scratch colour set up for my personal fun in my basement darkroom. As others have noted, there are a number of variables to keep under control. I print colour infrequently- 1-2 nights every month, and a couple of marathon events over 4 or more nights about twice a year. I use drums and uniroller base, and cooler, with fish tank pump and heater to temper the chems.

When I am going to print colour: in th mrning before work, or pop home at lunch time to:
1) Mix chems - I usually have stop bath & blix pre-mixed for a few months at a time - transfer to a 1l bottles and put in cooler. Mix a litre of developer; others may just dilute a pre-made concentrate; Either way - it does not keep well, and changes its colour characteristics as it ages, so start from fresh, or don't stop once started (or freeze the dilute developer bettween sessions).

2) Get the heater and pump going, Program my process timer to suit RA-4. (Colour processing in tubes is mechanical and repetitive- a process timer to remind you where you are helps to lighten the experience for me consierably. Mine is a Vivitar unit from ages ago bought as part of a lot of *bay. It beeps to remind you to start draining, etc, notes that you are starting step 4, etc. Bottles are numbered to help tie to timer.)

3) Pull paper from the freezer, and put it in the dark drawer to warm up and be ready for after the kids are in bed.

after work - and kids to bed-

4) get a standard face and grey card ('shirley' is the trade term for this) standard neg print to print well. This gets process calibration factors known to me. I know that the paper isn't fogged, the colours are not crossed, the prints are not blue stained, etc. Viewing Filters, and a ring around poster (Kodak Darkroom dataguide had the poster) showing what pictures look like with the wrong filtration and exposure are a good starting tool.

5) Start printing. In the beginning, keep every print, and write the exposure and filter values on the back (sharpie pen after dry). Review them a day later, and they will give you skills to see where to go, and how to get there, faster, the next time you do it. Don't be surprised if the first few nights you get only one (or zero) prints out that you are satisfied with. With practice it can easily turn into one hour photo- one photo per hour that you are happy with. If there are more pictures shot in the same lighting situation, then you have your filtration from the first good print - start printing the rest, as only minor tweaks will be required.

6) after a while printing colour, think about spending some cash on a good late model analyser, like a jobo or colorstar, with multiple channels. They will make the job of getting the exposure and filtration right first faster, but come with hassles of their own. Nick Z and I have colorstars, and they are little wonders, but you need to know colour before you have the skills to know what the analyser is telling you, and where to aim and calibrate it. My colour analyser gets me to a good test print as the second print of a session. It is less of a help on big sessions once the first print of the session is good.

 

[Neal]

Dear Jed,

Give it a try using trays at room temperature. You will have to increase the time in the developer, work in the dar, use gloves... (Search for other threads on this subject.) If it doesn't work out, a dichroic head is a much handier way to work with VC paper than filters and the only thing you're out is the price of the chemicals and a box of paper.

Neal Wydra

 

[PatTrent]

I used to do it and it wasn't difficult. The key is to do it often enough that your chemicals don't go bad between print sessions. Consistency is the key. Shoot one film, use one paper, one brand chem kit--at least while you're learning.

If you've never made your own color enlargements, you'll be blown away by the quality!

 

[Jedidiah Smith]

Thanks for the replies. I'll have to see what kind of shape it's in, etc. Have to see if I really want to give up my slides and go with negs for printing as well...I really enjoyed shooting slides last fall.
Jed

 

[davetravis]

Thanks for the replies. I'll have to see what kind of shape it's in, etc. Have to see if I really want to give up my slides and go with negs for printing as well...I really enjoyed shooting slides last fall.
Jed

Ever heard of Ilfochrome?
The cost of initial setup will be more than for C-41 processes, but you will be able to keep shooting slides and enjoy the first generation's print quality!
Better hurry though, I'm starting to have trouble again finding the chems and paper...
Good luck.
DT

 

[MikeM1977]

Well, I am faced with an interesting decision. I have the opportunity to purchase an Omega D5 Dichroic enlarger - and I'm wondering just how hard it is to make color prints in the darkroom.

So far I do B&W in the darkroom, and usually shoot slide film and have it scanned to print when I want color. However, I am really considering shooting C-41 color negs and then trying my hand at color printing. Is this a good choice? Do you think I will get anywhere near the quality of my slides that I've had scanned in and printed?

Thanks for any input and opinions. I've never done color darkroom work before. Neg sizes are 35mm (Minolta MD mount) and 6x7 (Mamiya RZ67).
Jed

Color printing is easy with Tetenal Mono room temperature chemicals and a set of Kodak printing filters. I can usually nail the color/exposure with a single test strip.

That said, I no longer print color because it lacks the "magic" of B&W. It just isn't as fun.

 

[papo]

I think that making color prints on your own is not technically very difficult and you don't need a lot of sophisticated equipment (although it surely helps).
I make color prints using Meopta Magnifax IV with color head and develop/fix them in home-made slot baths.
Perhaps some practical points will be useful to you.

The chemicals are rather expensive and to achieve some cost-effectiveness, you'll have to process them within reasonable time before they are degraded, which means, as an example, that you have to make about 50 8x10 prints in a month or two (in one liter of working solution), depending on the chemicals.
I use the Tetenal RA-4 kit.

It is helpful to use good quality professional films whose properties are stable. I have found the new Fuji 160S and Fuji 160C extremely good in this respect.
Actually, I have not had to change the filtration found when I started using them.

Regardless of what film you use, take care that the density of the negative is sufficient, when in doubt, overexpose the film.

Well, good luck and a lot of beautiful prints.

Pavel

 

[Nick Zentena]

I don't find the chemicals that short lived.

The developer will go off quicker but the blix keeps for quite a while for me.

I do use a prewash for the paper and a stop between the developer and blix. I know the prewash has helped my developer keeping qualities. The stop I guess is helping the blix also.

By using drums I don't need to mix very large amounts of chemicals. The stocks keep even better then the diluted chemicals. The life span is much better then I'd expected. For a person using drums and mixing less then 250ml of developer per shot it's not very hard to keep it from going bad.

 

[nworth]

The first one is murder - or at least you will probably want to commit suicide before you get it right. After that, it's easy - as easy as black and white. That is it is easy until you get out of practice - then you start over again. Color analyzers make routine printing a lot easier, but you still have to get that first good print. Although they are nice, a color analyzer is not absolutely required to make good color prints. A good viewing light is required. You can use trays for printing, but using a rotary processor is much, much easier. The Jobo is classic, but the cheap little DevTec does an excellent job. Automatic temperature control is also a big plus. The Jobo comes with a built in heater, and you can get immersion heaters for the DevTec. Instead of paying the high price for the DevTec heater, though, you might try an aquarium heater-thermostat. They are cheap and perfectly good for the application. You want to process at a reasonably high temperature to keep the times within reason. Although the literature talks about quarter of a degree temperature accuracy, print processing for the individual darkroom works perfectly well if you can keep the temperature within a degree or so.

 

[L Gebhardt]

I have both a Jobo and a roller transport machine (Durst Printo). For prints upto 12 inches wide the Printo is great. Much easier than even the automatic Jobo (ATL). The Printo was also very cheap on ebay. There are roller transport machines available in all sizes. If you are going to do color regularly I would get one for sure. Save the Jobo for film and large prints.