Smaug01
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I like how Ilford continually evolves and doesn't assume its customers are dumb.
We know that they don't assume we're dumb, because they go to the trouble and expense to continually improve their products. It would be cheaper to just market them harder and not go to that trouble or expense.we don’t know what Ilford assumes. Maybe (well, not maybe) Kodak is run by a bunch of Bozos? Perez was a notable master of destruction.
Tri-X is legendary too. What surprised me is that HP5+ is better than Tri-X, (even if only the substrate) at a lower cost OUTSIDE its domestic market! That's how Ilford is staying relevant without the need for hype or patriotism.And what’s surprising about HP5 being so good? It’s a legendary film, after all.
As an American, I try to support Kodak, but sometimes, they anger me so!
Their old trick of creating new film formats so that they could be the only manufacturer of the film was annoying.
I went back to shooting film a few months ago after about a 15 year hiatus. I was happy to see that Kodak is still making film. I started with good ol' Tri-X. I don't have humidity control in my home, so when I hung the negatives to dry they quickly cupped to the point that it was very hard to hold them flat to scan. The film costs more than Ilford as well.
I posted a poll awhile back in the Negative Positives Facebook group asking what their favorite B&W film was. I thought Tri-X would be a shoe-in. To my surprise, HP5+ was the favorite. I had never tried it. (I used Ilford papers in the past, but never Ilford film) The word was that HP5+ looks similar to Tri-X, but doesn't cup as much. I tried it and it was true. I don't know what causes the cupping, but it is something that Ilford addressed and Kodak did not. (despite costing more in its home market!)
As I peruse the internet for data, I notice that Ilford puts together nice guides (besides the basic datasheet) to help. Nice YouTube videos. Right here is a forum that Ilford sponsors. Nice. I think that's the last Kodak film I'll buy. Cost IS an issue, but so is quality.
So Ilford released their Kentmere line, to compete with the low cost but high quality films by Foma. Meanwhile, Kodak raised their prices by 20% and has no lower cost offerings. They're making it REALLY hard to support them. It takes real patriotism, just like buying American cars in the 80s and 90s. They're in decline because they assume their customers are stupid.
I'm about to buy a bulk loader and a 100' roll of 400 film.
Tri-X: $100
Kentmere: $50
TMY: $95
Delta: $80
Foma: $55
HP5+: $75
To me, Delta shows a bit more grain than TMY, but has a much better tonal range. TMY is too contrasty, in addition to costing 25% more.
HP5+ just looks lovely. More grain than Delta but gorgeous tones. Looks very nearly as good at 1600 as it does at 400, too!
My last roll was Fomapan 400. Very nice tones, but huge grain too. I think I'm gonna try a couple rolls of Kentmere, then decide.
Ah well, Kodak still has my chemistry business, for the moment...
We know that they don't assume we're dumb, because they go to the trouble and expense to continually improve their products. It would be cheaper to just market them harder and not go to that trouble or expense.
Tri-X is legendary too. What surprised me is that HP5+ is better than Tri-X, (even if only the substrate) at a lower cost OUTSIDE its domestic market! That's how Ilford is staying relevant without the need for hype or patriotism.
I developed a roll of T-Max 100 a couple weeks ago, and it was almost as bad as Tri-X.@Smaug01 Tri-X cups considerably, but other Kodak films dry dead flat. Their colour films are particularly good in that respect.
Hmmm, nope, Fuji C41 films cup a fair bit, although not annoyingly.I developed a roll of T-Max 100 a couple weeks ago, and it was almost as bad as Tri-X.
I think most C-41 films dry flat, right?
I have never had HP5+ "cup" when drying. I hang a clip on it and it dries completely flat. My relative humidity is never below 65% and usually closer to low 70s for most of the year. I live in the Midlands of the U.K. I even managed once on my night-school course to wash for quite a few seconds with really hot water and it came out unscathed. It is a well behaved film in my opinion .
pentaxuser
Ilford products seem to be more expensive in the UK than they are in the US.
Which merely highlights the fact that pricing has more to do with distribution issues than almost anything else.
I'm a lifelong Kodak user, and use their film and chemicals where they make a product of a type that I seek to use, but I use and enjoy Ilford products as well.
And for me, T-Max 100, T-Max 400 (TMY-2) and (at least until my last stock runs out) Plus-X all dry without cupping both in 135 and 120 formats.
I haven't shot Tri-X for a while.
I developed a roll of T-Max 100 a couple weeks ago, and it was almost as bad as Tri-X.
I think most C-41 films dry flat, right?
No, this is just hanging it up after squeegeeing. Humidity is very low in my part of the world in winter, sometimes getting down to 10%. It's not as bad as desert, but not far off either.Sounds like you are over drying your film. Do you use a heated dryer?
No, this is just hanging it up after squeegeeing. Humidity is very low in my part of the world in winter, sometimes getting down to 10%. It's not as bad as desert, but not far off either.
Ilford products seem to be more expensive in the UK than they are in the US.
Which merely highlights the fact that pricing has more to do with distribution issues than almost anything else.
.
Matt, I always thought that distribution costs had as two of its fairly important costs, distance and the logistics needed. I still scratch my head about what makes distributing on one small island not quite as big as Texas more expensive than crossing 3000+ miles of water then distributing product over a land that is about as large as the water
pentaxuser
Well said. The famous British sense of humour has clearly infiltrated and infected the continent of Europe. I take it you use such comments when you need your daughter to smile for a portrait. It certainly worked for me. Five minutes later I am still smilingLet's wait and see what Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson can do for the British film folks ...
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