How does 120mm film work ??

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BADGER.BRAD

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Hello All,
I've brought a Kodak Brownie no2 and have been looking at the how to use vids but am a little confused to how the film is exposed to light in the camera. The film can be loaded in day light but the Camera does not seem to uncover it. Is it just the fact it is the inside of the roll or that there is a leader which runs out as the film is drawn through the camera or other ?
 

Leigh B

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Hi Brad,

The film backing paper is longer than the film itself.
There are several inches at the beginning with no film.
That leader is wound onto the takeup spool until an index mark is positioned correctly.
That mark is commonly an arrow, but may be a different mark.
That lines up with a mark in the camera body or film magazine.

Once the leader is lined up, the camera is closed and the film is advanced to the first active frame.
Some cameras stop when the film reaches that point. Others rely on the operator to see an indicator.

- Leigh

edited for typo
 
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mweintraub

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Ok, I'll say it.

It's 120, not 120mm. (as demonstrated by mudfly9's posted video)
 
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BADGER.BRAD

BADGER.BRAD

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Thanks all I'm pretty new to this and until now have only used 35mm, I'm looking forward to it. Does the original spool become the next take up spool ?
 
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BADGER.BRAD

BADGER.BRAD

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The video was good and led me on to other interesting ones,does anyone know what ASA/ISO the original film was ? I would like to stick to what the camera was designed for as a starting point.
 

pentaxuser

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The video was good and led me on to other interesting ones,does anyone know what ASA/ISO the original film was ? I would like to stick to what the camera was designed for as a starting point.

What original film are you referring to and what do you mean by "what the camera was designed for"? It sounds as if you think a camera is designed for a certain speed of film. Well this is not the case. A camera is simply a light tight box which exposes a film to light at a shutter speed and aperture which corresponds to what a meter says is the correct shutter speed and aperture for the light conditions and the film speed, be that 50,100, 400 etc. A very fast film in very bright conditions may require a small aperture if the range of shutter speeds are limited to say 1/25th; 1/50th and 1/100th. How limited is the Brownie No2 in its range of shutter speeds and apertures?

In Dudley I'd have thought that now it is summer that 100 speed film might be ideal but on dull days 400 might also be fine. It might be worth getting books on the relationship between film speed, shutter speed and aperture.

pentaxuser
 

Sirius Glass

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Thanks all I'm pretty new to this and until now have only used 35mm, I'm looking forward to it. Does the original spool become the next take up spool ?

SAVE THE TAKE UP SPOOL! YOU NEED IT AND IT IS HARD TO REPLACE. IF YOU GET A SECOND TAKE UP SPOOL, YOU CAN RELOAD THE 120 INTO A 620 SPOOL. Then you can go from a 620 spool to a 620 spool.
 

F994

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Well, I had some trouble finding 620 spools for my Kodak Vollenda 620, and I've found a solution.
Just a nail clipper is needed, cut away the excess of plastic from the spool making the diameter of it equal to the diameter of the rest of the roll, It will fit perfectly in the place and even if it isn't really orthodox it'll work.
 

MattKing

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Thanks all I'm pretty new to this and until now have only used 35mm
Ironically, "35mm" isn't the correct designation for that film either.
The correct designation is "135".
In the case of 135 film though, the width of the film - including the sprockets and rebate - happens to be 35mm.
 

Cholentpot

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SAVE THE TAKE UP SPOOL! YOU NEED IT AND IT IS HARD TO REPLACE. IF YOU GET A SECOND TAKE UP SPOOL, YOU CAN RELOAD THE 120 INTO A 620 SPOOL. Then you can go from a 620 spool to a 620 spool.

The No.2 takes 120 no problem. My model at least is not 620.

The video was good and led me on to other interesting ones,does anyone know what ASA/ISO the original film was ? I would like to stick to what the camera was designed for as a starting point.

Film cameras can be viewed as having swappable sensors. There is really no designation for what kind of film can be used. If it fits it can be used.
 

MattKing

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Film cameras can be viewed as having swappable sensors. There is really no designation for what kind of film can be used. If it fits it can be used.
While this is true, I find that many of the older cameras benefit from medium to slower speed film, because the shutter speeds they offer aren't very wide ranging.
If your top shutter speed is 1/80 second, and your smallest aperture is f/22, it can be difficult to use 400 ISO film outside on a sunny day.
 
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BADGER.BRAD

BADGER.BRAD

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Thanks for the replies everyone my Model uses 120 as well. As Mattking said the camera is very limited on Apertures (f16/22/32 with some people saying when measured these are different) and a shutter speed somewhere between 1/30th and 1/60th depending on the camera, noting these limitations and variations I wondered what people where using in reality would 100asa do or did I need to go lower.The manual says to only use the largest stop for snap shots in which case applying the basic sunny 16 rule I use for my 35mm camera F16 and then match shutter speed to ASA as near as poss on a sunny day would give me 50asa film ASA the nearest i have also read that fast film at the time this camera was produced was between 20 to 30 ASA I will start at 100ASA for our British summer and see where I go from there.

Again Thanks all for the replies
 
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jimjm

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I'd recommend trying something like Ilford Pan F Plus, which is ISO 50. It's very reasonably-priced here in the US and you should easily be able to find it in the UK. I would think you should be able to get adequately-exposed shots on a sunny or bright overcast day, with your largest aperture and either of your 2 shutter speeds.

Rollei RPX is an ISO 25 film, but more expensive than Ilford and it may be harder to find.
 

LAG

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As Mattking said the camera is very limited on Apertures (f16/22/32 with some people saying when measured these are different) and a shutter speed somewhere between 1/30th and 1/60th depending on the camera ...

Excuse me Badger.Brad

Apertures f/

I have two Kodak Brownie Box No2 cameras, (one made in UK and the other one made in Toronto). Both have the same apertures, and as I said (there was a url link here which no longer exists) their value are 16 | 22 & 36 (in fact, in my case are 15,4 | 21,6 & 36). You should try to trust your own calculations on this (if you have the time, patience, etc) because you can find it out for yourself if you do your own maths taking into account the focal length and the diameter of the aperture holes, with those results you will see the three "f/" for yourself.

Shutter Speed 1/x

However, in my case, both shutter cameras do not work at the same speed, one of them opens 0.0256 secs. and the other near 0.0322 secs. (even in this camera the shutter speed sometimes does not work properly)

...does anyone know what ASA/ISO the original film was ? I would like to stick to what the camera was designed for as a starting point.

Camera Design

The Brownie Box Nº2 (like many other cameras) was designed taking into account many factors, not only the film speed available then.

The manual says to only use the largest stop for snap shots in which case applying the basic sunny 16 rule I use for my 35mm camera F16 and then match shutter speed to ASA as near as poss on a sunny day would give me 50asa film ASA the nearest i have also read that fast film at the time this camera was produced was between 20 to 30 ASA I will start at 100ASA for our British summer and see where I go from there.

In fact the Kodak Brownie Box cameras was supposedly created to be adapted and adopted to anyone with low technical expertise to operate them and little knowledge of Photography (to take those snap shots easily), considering only different light conditions/scenarios so that the film was correctly exposed. I do not know the reasons why you want/need to use a film now whose speed are similar (not equal) to those then, but bear in mind that it will not make the camera perform better, only that it will be more comfortable to adapt the light conditions to your knowledge/camera characteristics, in order to avoid making the same mistakes.

All the best!

I find that many of the older cameras benefit from medium to slower speed film, because the shutter speeds they offer aren't very wide ranging.

... and because of (the not very wide) films speeds available then as well.
 

Leigh B

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Ironically, "35mm" isn't the correct designation for that film either.
The correct designation is "135".
While that may be how the box is labeled, here in the US it's called 35mm.

If you ask a store clerk for "135 film" you'll get a blank stare.

And I challenge you to find a "135" camera. There are/were plenty of 35mm cameras.

- Leigh
 
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Harry Stevens

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I bought a beautiful boxed,manual,cased mint Kodak sterling II and this fully working beauty came with two glorious empty 620 spools ....................:smile: God I swear I can still detect the factory smell.
 

Cholentpot

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Thanks for the replies everyone my Model uses 120 as well. As Mattking said the camera is very limited on Apertures (f16/22/32 with some people saying when measured these are different) and a shutter speed somewhere between 1/30th and 1/60th depending on the camera, noting these limitations and variations I wondered what people where using in reality would 100asa do or did I need to go lower.The manual says to only use the largest stop for snap shots in which case applying the basic sunny 16 rule I use for my 35mm camera F16 and then match shutter speed to ASA as near as poss on a sunny day would give me 50asa film ASA the nearest i have also read that fast film at the time this camera was produced was between 20 to 30 ASA I will start at 100ASA for our British summer and see where I go from there.

Again Thanks all for the replies

100 will be no problem at all. Modern films can handles loads and loads of over exposure. I would even venture to say the ISO 400 film will perform fine. I've done it with no problem.

As for calculating with sunny 16, don't bother with this camera. Point and shoot, it's a box with a hole and a spring loaded cover over the hole. Really, this camera is as uncomplicated as it gets. Don't over think it. Get what 120 film is available, load up, shoot and that's it. Don't expect spectacular results from a camera that's older than your great grandfather and built out of cardboard and wood.
 

MattKing

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While that may be how the box is labeled, here in the US it's called 35mm.

If you ask a store clerk for "135 film" you'll get a blank stare.

And I challenge you to find a "135" camera. There are/were plenty of 35mm cameras.

- Leigh
Semantics are wonderful :smile:.
I totally agree that "35mm" is the common, every day, "Kleenex" reference, although I might point out that nowadays if you ask most store clerks for "film", you will get the same blank stare.
The point I was trying to make is that the actual designation for the film, packaged in a way that it can actually go into our still cameras and be used by them, is "135".
There are lots of types of 35mm film that are unusable in our cameras, although some of them can be made usable by packaging them appropriately into 135 packaging.
The 35mm film for motion picture cameras is one type of 35mm film. It has its own type of sprocket holes. You would use it in something like an Arriflex camera - common I guess in the motion picture world, but certainly not every-day. Unless you modify it in some way - cut it into appropriate lengths and load it into appropriate cassettes - you cannot use it in most common still cameras.
The 35mm film for motion picture projectors is another type of 35mm film. It has another type of sprockets. It too requires modification for use in "35mm" still cameras.
A third type of 35mm film is used in 126 cameras. That film has a really different type of sprockets, as well as backing paper and a 126 type of cartridge. There is no practical way of modifying this 35mm film for use in "35mm" still cameras.
The most common type of 35mm film for most of us here is one that has an emulsion suitable for still photography, the same sprocket holes as the motion projection stock, and a cassette that is suitable for cameras that take 135 film.
The "135" describes the combination of film size, sprockets and cassette - not just the film itself.
Historically, there were other styles of cassettes and packaging for 35mm film that allowed it to be used in what we would now describe as "non-standard" cameras. From Wikipedia: "The designations 235 and 435 refer to 35 mm film in daylight-loading spools, that could be loaded into Leica or Contax style reusable cassettes without need of a darkroom. The 335 was a daylight loading spool for the 24 × 23 mm stereo format."
I only have Kodak boxes to refer to, but while all have reference on them to 135 film, all but one of my individual film boxes have no reference to 35mm film. That exception is a roll of 1987 Kodachrome where, in addition to all the "135" references, there is a "35mm" adjacent to the DX symbol. In contrast, the bulk film rolls have no reference on them to "135" - it is "35mm x 100 feet" on them.
I've browsed through some Kodak datasheets. The individual rolls are referred to as 135, while the bulk rolls are referred to as 35mm.
I have a fair number of camera manuals within reach. Some refer to film as 35mm, some refer to both 135 and 35mm, many just say film and 24mm x 36mm.
It is similar to the 120 vs. 620 comparison. The film is identical but other factors (in this case the spools differences) determine the suitability for use in a camera.
I point out all this detail because while we have a lot of historical reference and context, that isn't the case for people who are new to film. Someone new might assume that all "35mm" film is suitable for use in something like a Canon AE-1, and end up buying an old 400 foot roll of "35mm" motion picture projection stock off of eBay thinking that it is perfect for their needs.
 
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