Please don't think me insolent, jtk, but I think I sense a difference in culture here and I should greatly appreciate your help to understand its nature. You live in the USA, I live in Denmark.
Why would you be reluctant to photograph a sufferer of (especially) COPD ? For aesthetic reasons, out of consideration for the afflicted person, or because of personal qualms?
Certainly COPD is a debilitating illness, but not all sufferers are visibly crippled or festooned with oxygen lines or other distracting apparatus. And even if some are, this shouldn't preclude a good portrait being taken, provided the person is obliging and not ashamed of her/his condition. Age and illness take their toll of beauty; that is part of the human condition and should, in principle, be photographable - if not photogenic. The print will not necessarily end up an Arbus imitation.
I ask my question in perfect sincerity. I myself (70) am terminally ill with COPD (from smoking), and I wouldn't mind a proficient photographer friend taking my picture if that were her/his wish (only I would stipulate that it be in B/W). In exchange, the friend might be persuaded to push my wheelchair to some location where I could take a few pictures myself.
I know that many fellow sufferers are similarly disinclined to let themselves be defined solely by their complaint.
And the upside to a photograph (in contrast to the living person) is, I might add, that the beholder is mercifully spared listening to the sufferer's wheezing breath and noisy coughing.
All the best,
Michael
I think you should ask them rather than assuming. You might be surprised that they are more comfortable with it than are you.Michael, Has anybody made your portrait with oxygen tubes? Have you personally made such a portrait? Please post an example in Media.
I have a half dozen elderly friends who do exhibit COPD (tanks, other devices, tubes) . I think it would be taken as offensive if I asked to photograph them with that equipment.
Thank you. If that is your friends' probable attitude to being photographed in their distressing situation, I can certainly understand that consideration for their sentiments must carry much weight with you. It was just the singling out of COPD that made me wonder whether people in the US generally are a little more shy about visible infirmity (their own and that of others) than most people over here.I have a half dozen elderly friends who do exhibit COPD (tanks, other devices, tubes) . I think it would be taken as offensive if I asked to photograph them with that equipment.
It would take a Photoshop magician to get a portrait of me like I hope I look.The other is that my spin on portraiture involves making respectful images that reflect the way people hope they look, within reason.
I just paste a photo of George Clooney to the mirror...It would take a Photoshop magician to get a portrait of me like I hope I look.
Forgive my bluntness but you seem more concerned about what “others” may be thinking and your own biases/concerns than the desires/needs of your portrait sitter friend.Michael, there are at least two related issues here.
One is the fact that many or most people correctly associate COPD with smoking, which is very much a "lower class" addiction in the US today. The other is that my spin on portraiture involves making respectful images that reflect the way people hope they look, within reason.
Several years ago New Mexico's health department funded huge roadside billboards featuring a cowboy (Marlboro Man type) whose cancer surgery removed most of his lower jaw. Fine, horrible photos. I don't think of them as "portraits."
I think you should ask them rather than assuming. You might be sure that they are more comfortable with it than are you.
Forgive my bluntness but you seem more concerned about what “others” may be thinking and your own biases/concerns than the desires/needs of your portrait sitter friend.
Thanks very much for clarifying your viewpoint, jtk. I can appreciate what you call your 'spin' on portraiture and will not argue with it, though I myself tend to prefer a more 'true to life' realism in a portrait. Personal styles and customer wishes and tastes vary.... my spin on portraiture involves making respectful images that reflect the way people hope they look, within reason.
Few would deny that COPD is usually associated with smoking, but in Denmark smoking has never been perceived as especially indicative of lower class status. On this point, it seems, there is a real difference in culture. Until recent years, smoking was (only too) common in all socioeconomic and educational strata here; professor, doctor, unskilled worker, cabinet minister, business tycoon, tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, rich man, poor man etc. ... they all smoked. Even our reigning monarch, Queen Margrethe II, is still an unrepentant cigarette smoker (as was her father). But then, class differences are moderate and not very pronounced in Denmark; we are a typical Scandinavian society with high social mobility and a low level of inequality. This may account for the fact that COPD carries no socioeconomic stigma here.... the fact that many or most people correctly associate COPD with smoking, which is very much a "lower class" addiction in the US today.
Michael, there are at least two related issues here.
One is the fact that many or most people correctly associate COPD with smoking, which is very much a "lower class" addiction in the US today. The other is that my spin on portraiture involves making respectful images that reflect the way people hope they look, within reason.
Several years ago New Mexico's health department funded huge roadside billboards featuring a cowboy (Marlboro Man type) whose cancer surgery removed most of his lower jaw. Fine, horrible photos. I don't think of them as "portraits."
Thanks very much for clarifying your viewpoint, jtk. I can appreciate what you call your 'spin' on portraiture and will not argue with it, though I myself tend to prefer a more 'true to life' realism in a portrait. Personal styles and customer wishes and tastes vary.
The other issue you mention is interesting.
Few would deny that COPD is usually associated with smoking, but in Denmark smoking has never been perceived as especially indicative of lower class status. On this point, it seems, there is a real difference in culture. Until recent years, smoking was (only too) common in all socioeconomic and educational strata here; professor, doctor, unskilled worker, cabinet minister, business tycoon, tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, rich man, poor man etc. ... they all smoked. Even our reigning monarch, Queen Margrethe II, is still an unrepentant cigarette smoker (as was her father). But then, class differences are moderate and not very pronounced in Denmark; we are a typical Scandinavian society with high social mobility and a low level of inequality. This may account for the fact that COPD carries no socioeconomic stigma here.
The billboards were portraits, unconventional, not the type we like to see or think about.
Go right ahead...Boys, boys, boys - can we give COPD a break?
Politically correct/incorrect commentary aside, the OP asked for strategy, not morality.
Can we now take the grown-up stance, assume the subjects of the portraits are willing, and devote ourselves to good advice on how to go about it.
If the sitter is overly aware of wrinkles, nothing forces you to use the sharpest lens that you have or keeps you from using what one manufacturer calls a "softar" filter. If it "bothers" you to use such aids, don't do elderly person portraits. To me the idea is to produce a photograph that the sitter is pleased with, not show-off your ability to show "realism". I, personally need to learn to light a "formal" portrait which is how I would shoot an elderly person and is how I would prefer to be photographed when I become elderly. I am 87 now. Maybe when I am 90, I will be elderly. Maybe I'll just shoot my reflection in a mirror.........Regards!Please don't think me insolent, jtk, but I think I sense a difference in culture here and I should greatly appreciate your help to understand its nature. You live in the USA, I live in Denmark.
Why would you be reluctant to photograph a sufferer of (especially) COPD ? For aesthetic reasons, out of consideration for the afflicted person, or because of personal qualms?
Certainly COPD is a debilitating illness, but not all sufferers are visibly crippled or festooned with oxygen lines or other distracting apparatus. And even if some are, this shouldn't preclude a good portrait being taken, provided the person is obliging and not ashamed of her/his condition. Age and illness take their toll of beauty; that is part of the human condition and should, in principle, be photographable - if not photogenic. The print will not necessarily end up an Arbus imitation.
I ask my question in perfect sincerity. I myself (70) am terminally ill with COPD (from smoking), and I wouldn't mind a proficient photographer friend taking my picture if that were her/his wish (only I would stipulate that it be in B/W). In exchange, the friend might be persuaded to push my wheelchair to some location where I could take a few pictures myself.
I know that many fellow sufferers are similarly disinclined to let themselves be defined solely by their complaint.
And the upside to a photograph (in contrast to the living person) is, I might add, that the beholder is mercifully spared listening to the sufferer's wheezing breath and noisy coughing.
All the best,
Michael
Yes to both questions, jtk. Earlier it was not uncommon for an interviewee in e.g. a magazine feature to be portrayed sporting a cigarette or (if male) a pipe, but after the badly needed anti-smoking campaign a few decennia back this has become rare. In newspaper and magazine features on health challenges, on the other hand, I have some times seen even whole-page portraits of interviewees wearing e.g. nasal cannula.Have you seen portraits of Danes when they smoke, or of Danes with COPD appliances?
I don't think so. It is not my impression that Danes in general begrudge certain patient groups the care they need. Voicing assumptions of a disease being brought on by people's own fault is considered vulgar. With the number of COPD cases here, almost everybody has a relative or friend who is so afflicted. Although there is occasional grumbling about high taxes, the principle of solidary funding has a long history with us, and our tax financed health care system still enjoys undivided support. Use of hospitals and GP services are free at the point of use, and the system ensures equity in access to health care.I wonder if Danes generally recognize people with COPD as burdens on society, the way many Americans see diseased cigarette smokers.
Thank you for relating your experiences with photographing seriously ill relatives. Much food for contemplation there. I am impressed by your sensitive approach to these difficult tasks, and your thoughts on the matter are much appreciated.I’ve done portraits of several cancer patients and stroke victims...
Highly developed empathy is invaluable in a portrait photographer, but in situations like the ones you describe both photographer and sitter need courage as well.the decision on photography was part of a loving discussion in which two “needs” were balanced: my desire to have a lasting memory, and my loved one’s desire to be remembered the way they chose to be remembered.
Go right ahead...
But please note that this is in “Ethics and Philosophy“, not Portraiture Technique.
BTW, if you like the Rolleisoft you’ll probably really like the Rollei Duto.
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