How do you people buy chemicals..???

Sparky · Sep 20, 2007

I have been having a HELL of a time trying to buy chemistry from suppliers. (I blame the patriot act!) it seems impossible to purchase lab grade reagents unless you are a major corporation or research facility. I've been trying to order 1M Sulfuric acid from just about everyone and have yet to have any success... it's not like it's something you'd use to make bombs with... does anyone have any suggestions about where to get chems (clearly I can get the more popular photo chems from formulary, digitaltruth, etc...) but they don't have everything.

Photo Engineer · Sep 20, 2007

Sparky said:
I have been having a HELL of a time trying to buy chemistry from suppliers. (I blame the patriot act!) it seems impossible to purchase lab grade reagents unless you are a major corporation or research facility. I've been trying to order 1M Sulfuric acid from just about everyone and have yet to have any success... it's not like it's something you'd use to make bombs with... does anyone have any suggestions about where to get chems (clearly I can get the more popular photo chems from formulary, digitaltruth, etc...) but they don't have everything.

The Formulary sells 48% sulfuric acid which can be diluted down to 1 M.

I get most everything from them or kyantec.com.

PE

Sparky · Sep 20, 2007

REALLY? Did I miss it..? If I'm not mistaken- 1M sulfuric acid should be 100% by all normal definitions...? (M designating 'molar' - i.e. 1 mol/litre)

Tony Wingo · Sep 20, 2007

REALLY? Did I miss it..? If I'm not mistaken- 1M sulfuric acid should be 100% by all normal definitions...? (M designating 'molar' - i.e. 1 mol/litre)

Actually, no. A mole of H2SO4 weighs about 50g, so a 1M solution would be about 5%. See Mole and Concentration

Mike Wilde · Sep 21, 2007

JD Photochem - a shamless plug

Claire at JD Photochem sells me anything I need. I am a photographer, so techical grade almost always suits my needs. Reagent grade will almost always cost oodles more.

She is outside of Montreal, and I believe she regularly makes mailings to the US from Vermont.

If you don;t see the qunatity you want, just ask. She has been good enough to sell me as little as 10g of some things (mostly esoteric colour bits).

Ole · Sep 21, 2007

Sparky said:
... I've been trying to order 1M Sulfuric acid from just about everyone and have yet to have any success... it's not like it's something you'd use to make bombs with...

No, you would use concentrated for that. it's easier with concentrated, at least...

You need a couple more ingredients, but they are more easily available.

The main problem is that in the current state of panic, the "authorities" don't distinguish between dilute and concentrated, and seem to believe that all raw materials are more dangerous than good old dynamite.

Photo Engineer · Sep 21, 2007

The molecular weight of sulfuric acid is 98.08.

1 molar = 98.08 grams / liter or 9.808%. This would be 2 Normal. Concentrated sulfuric acid is about 98% and is sold as Oil of Vitriol. It is very corrosive and will boil water if added to water improperly. The 48% solution is about 1/2 the strength of the industrial grade acid.

Battery acid is about 35% sulfuric acid and is suitable for most photographic applications if it is clear and looks like water. Discolored battery acid is not usable.

PE

Sparky · Sep 21, 2007

good to know about the battery acid - i guess the only problem would be having to titrate it to figure out what concentration you're dealing with. I'm not sure how picky some of these toner recipes are - but I think it'd be pretty smart to be precise - just for the sake of repeatability...!

Photo Engineer · Sep 21, 2007

The density is printed on the container of battery acid. A set of international critical tables will give you concentration within the percentage needed for photographic use.

PE

nworth · Sep 22, 2007

A lot depends on where you live. For most chemical supplies, I order from Photographers' Formulary. But some common chemicals, such as sulfuric acid, glacial acetic acid, concentrated ammonia, and a quite a few others are considered hazardous. I find that it is easier to get these from a local chemical supply house that mostly deals with local industrial and educational labs. They don't have everything, but they are a good source for the common industrial chemicals. Sure, they want to know who I am and why I want the stuff, but they are generally easy to deal with and I avoid the hefty shipping surcharge. If you must get hazardous substances shipped to you, you can minimize the surcharge by buying all the hazardous stuff in one place at one time. The shipper usually makes only a single charge for the special packaging, handling, and shipping required.

BTW, if you need only a modest amount of sulfuric acid in a recipe, you can usually use sodium bisulfate instead, which generates sulfuric acid in solution. It's not considered hazardous.

Ian Grant · Sep 22, 2007

In the UK trade chemical suppliers require an official order on headed company paper. This has been in force for well over 10 years.

However if you make up your own as ******* Photography or something similar with your home address they will usually accept this. However you will most probably have to explain what you want to buy and how you will use it. The company has an obligation to supply you with a COSHH sheet (similar to US MSDS) for every chemical they supply to you so will keep a database record of your orders etc.

Ian

Akki14 · Sep 22, 2007

Or you just buy it from Silverprint or Retro Photographic if you're in the UK.

Ian Grant · Sep 22, 2007

Of course but neither stock a full range of chemicals. In addition it is usually far cheaper to buy from a trade supplier.

Ian

Akki14 said:
Or you just buy it from Silverprint or Retro Photographic if you're in the UK.

dancqu · Sep 22, 2007

Sparky said:
... does anyone have any suggestions about where to get
chems (clearly I can get the more popular photo chems from
formulary, digitaltruth, etc...) but they don't have everything.

Well I believe we should support the industry so buy
from established suppliers of photographic chemistry.

The Formulary has a vast selection of chemicals and
they sell in small as well as large amount. I appreciate
the small quantities because of the little lab work
I manage to schedule and the included
experimental work I do.

BTW, sodium bisulfate will likely supply all
H2SO4 needed. Dan

Nick Zentena · Sep 22, 2007

Depending on what you need the local grocery or hardware store may stock it.

Borax is in the laundry aisle usually.

The pool section will have a couple of different things. I want to say sodium carbonate and bisulfite but I don't remember.

You can buy vinegar instead of glacial.

In all cases you need to read the labels. Not just once but every time you consider buying the thing. Stuff gets changed. New and improved and all that. Then you need to do some testing to make sure.

But I don't think much of this stuff is ever really made for the photo market. So it all has other uses which means plenty of outlets.

haris · Sep 22, 2007

I live in continental Europe (Bosnia and Herzegovina) and buying from sellers in continental Europe (almost exslusive from Czech Republic (Ilford chemicals), rearly alsewhere, but last order was from Germany, and there was Rodinal).

I ask for proforma invoice, and in order I ask my order to be sent by good, old, ordinary post. And I make payments by bank, not buying by Email forms and credit cards. And I allways get all ordered chemicals, without ever needed to go to to "explain" to any office. I don't know if my orders which include chemicals travel by airplane or by trucks or by trains, but as fas as I know they travel by air. No problems so far, in period of around 8 years as I am buying this way.

I had only once problems (and no chemicals in that order ), but that was with Bosnian transport (courrier) company . When company returned products to seller, and seller again send them to me by post, I got them without any problems.

Butm this is (continental) Europe, for USA situation, I can't say anything.

Regards

Sparky · Sep 22, 2007

Nick Zentena said:
Depending on what you need the local grocery or hardware store may stock it.

Borax is in the laundry aisle usually.

The pool section will have a couple of different things. I want to say sodium carbonate and bisulfite but I don't remember.

You can buy vinegar instead of glacial.

In all cases you need to read the labels. Not just once but every time you consider buying the thing. Stuff gets changed. New and improved and all that. Then you need to do some testing to make sure.

But I don't think much of this stuff is ever really made for the photo market. So it all has other uses which means plenty of outlets.

Good suggestions generally- though the problem with household products like that is there isn't an assure purity -as well as the fact that they may contain other ingredients that might throw off results - it's for some toning experiments. But when all's said and done - I suppose it's the consistency that matters more than anything else...

amuderick · Sep 22, 2007

You might appreciate this list of chemicals and their common sources here

If you notice any errors or omissions, please let me know.

How do you people buy chemicals..???

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