how do you organize your negatives?

I was looking for a very specific neg to print and had a real hard time finding it. Had to look through all my binders of negs to find it, and of course it was in the last one almost to the end. While it was a informative experience ( I found some great shots i forgot about and plan to enlarge at a later time) it did take much longer than it should have.

So i guess my question is, how do you organize your negs? It looks like mine are done by shooting order. My binders hold about 100 print file sleeves and contact sheet prints. when I fill one binder up, its on to the next, But I do have one that is only yosemite and lake tahoe. At this point it would be a real long project to do a computerized filing system but it could in the long run be a better solution. Thoughts?

Whatever you decide to do, don't hesitate to start.

It is far easier to have two batches of negatives, with the newer one fully indexed and the older one in the process of being indexed, then it is to create the perfect, all encompassing system from scratch.

For older negatives, it can be useful to create a searchable, chronologically organized document that links brief descriptions and keywords to the date(s) of the rolls.

Be sure to backup your index!

I store mine in pages in a binder, in chronological order and I have separate binders for 35mm, 120, 4x5 and 8x10 (my pinhole festivities). I have created an Excel spreadsheet in which I put in a page for each roll of roll film (4x5 and 8x10 have only been used for pinhole work in this millennium and are indexed separately, as I don't do a lot of that). The film pages have columns for frame number, f-stop, shutter speed, subject description and filter. In addition I have note fields top and bottom to pick up film, metering, lens(es) used, developing, etc.

I give each roll an index of one to three letters that indicate the camera prefixed to a sequence number for rolls through that camera (Pknnn for the Perkeo II, SQwxy for the Bronica, etc.). In the front of the spreadsheet file is a "Master Index" page, then a subject index (and some other stuff). Excel, since I don't know when, supports HTML-like links, so the master index links to some sub-index pages. The subject index is grouped by year and then camera (for no particularly obvious reason -- it evolved that way). So each entry in the subject index has a date, subject description, and links to the associated rolls. When a subject has had a number of rolls used in one session, the subject entry is followed by links to each of the rolls. Each film page has links back to the master index and the subject index, as well as a link back to a use index for that particular film in a few cases of frequently used films -- Acros, 400TX, etc.

So I can ramble through page by page in chronological order, or I can look at "what stuff did I shoot on PX125" or I can fumble through the subject index. I don't do massive amounts of film shooting; if one had larger, nearly unwieldy amounts to track, the HTML linkage can even link to separate files which could theoretically reduce the size of the individual files.

The index number, film type, shooting date, and a subject are written on the physical negative file page. Within a format, say 120, all the camera types are interleaved to be strictly chronological order in the binder, so once I've noted I likely want a frame on roll Y021 shot on April 14, 2015, it's just leafing through the 120 binder containing that date range until landing at the right date.

Yes, it sounds complex, but once set up it's pretty simple. (And I am a former embedded systems designer/programmer and blessed with some OCD characteristics -- and retired! )

[And Matt offers important wisdom -- I have a tote full of negatives from the 1980s and 1990s that are a jumbled array I've still not had time to to do much with, but at least what I've done since 2005 is in some semblance of order!]

All my negative sleeves (35 and 120) are numbered in no particular order.
All negatives are scanned at a low resolution (1200dpi, batch scanning at a flatbed). The film is numbered and the individual negatives as well (like "film 188001, film 188002 etc).
The films are divided in categories like countries, places, persons etc.
These files are loaded into Lightroom.
When I want to find a certain negative, I open Lightroom, open the category and find the negative within seconds.
With the number I can easely find the sleeve I need and negative.
When I started this, I had almost 40 years of negatives, so scanning took some time, but batch scanning at this resolution goes very fast.
Frank

Pile One, Pile Two, Pile Three.... I admit, I've gotten really sloppy in this regard.

Every year starts with numeration from the start: 1, 2, 3 ... and scanned negatives have the same folder organization on the computer.
It is very easy to find negative: 2015-33, or 2012-76, 2016-01 ... since every negative has unique number. On the negative folder I put a dot under a frame that I think needs to be printed, and after it is printed I put small "+" next to the dot. In that way I can easily see what I have already printed and what still needs to be printed.
Also I can easily see how many negatives I shoot per year.

I number each roll with year-roll number-neg number. So 2016-122-20 is what it looks like. I scan everything and put it in Lightroom for organizing. The binders are labelled by year. When I see something I want to print I can just walk over to the appropriate binder and pull out the neg. I think this is by far the most efficient way of doing it, but as long as you are organized, it shouldn't matter how you do it. Fishing through binders when you get the urge to print is no fun.

I agree with Matt above as well. It is never to late to start.

I have a plain-text computer file with three sections: Sheets, "to be developed", and "in-camera".

A roll begins his life in the camera, and when I load the camera, I write which camera is loaded with what, in the "in camera" section. While I take the picture, I add short notes of the subject e.g.:

Minolta X-700: Astia 100F, Gianicolo (Garibaldi, Anita, faro), Lungotevere, Chiesa Nuova, Largo Argentina, Gesù, Grazioli (roll changed in front of Palazzo Grazioli).

When I unload the roll, it goes into the "TO BE DEVELOPED" section of the same file (copy and paste). The roll receives a double-letter code, e.g. FF. In the To be developed I now find this lines:

Roll FF: Astia 100F, Minolta X-700. Gianicolo (Garibaldi, Anita, faro), Lungotevere, Chiesa Nuova, Largo Argentina, Gesù, Grazioli (roll changed in front of Palazzo Grazioli).

When I develop it, the roll moves above in the Sheet section. It receives a definitive sheet number, and some definitive image numbers: e.g.

Foglio 23: Astia 100F, Minolta X-700. Gianicolo (Garibaldi, Anita, faro), Lungotevere, Chiesa Nuova, Largo Argentina, Gesù, Grazioli (roll changed in front of Palazzo Grazioli). Attributed numbers: 110487 - 110523.

The first two digits are the year of taking (2011 in the case of this roll) and the following numbers are a sequential attributed number.

The actual sheet is also marked with the sheet number and the attributed numbers. The stripes are loaded in the sheet in the order of taking. The sequence of sheets is coherent with the sequence of image numbers.

When I scan, I attribute to the raw scan the same number attributed to that image, e.g. 110487.dng.
When I develop the positive image, I attribute the same number to the image, e.g. 110487.tif.
By the same token, a JPEG derived from the same image would be 110487.jpg.

Scans from the same roll are all under the same directory. Directories are organized by year. E.g.
2011 (parent directory)
Foglio_23_Gianicolo_Chiesa_Nuova_Argentina_Gesù (directory)
Inside a directory, there are TIFFs and in a subdirectory the actual raw scans (DNG).

All images are described with short description, long description, keywords, and an approximate date of taking (I use Photomechanics, but then import the directories with Lightroom as well) using IPTC fields. Information is input once in DNG, and is then inherited by the other file formats.

Search on the entire stock are performed with Lightroom. Lightroom allows me to find the negative number, and from there finding the sheet, or the directory, is easy.

Digital images follow a similar logic, but they have no sheet and no plain-text file.
Image numbers begin with D so for year 2011 there can be an image which is called D110487 and has nothing to do with 110487. The two numbering sequences (film and digital) proceed in parallel.
Under the 2011 folder I would have for each day of digital captures a directory called, e.g.
2011_08_29_Paris_Luxembourg_Rive_Gauche_NotreDame

(directories of digital images are organized by day of taking, directory of film images are organized by film sheet).

That allows me to keep all images in the same tree directory structure by year, keeping side-by-side digital and film, without confusion, and to search by keyword any image, and see miniatures easily with Lightroom or PhotoMechanics.

Each image has its own IPTC fields. Lightroom creates sidecar files and/or populates a database, but I don't rely on that for archiving. I rely on images having their ITPC fields properly populated. A database can easily be created from actual IPTC fields of each image.

Diapositivo said:

A roll begins his life in the camera

Click to expand...

Fabrizio:
This made me smile.
Is there a reason that roll film is of the "masculine" gender?

Is sheet film different ?

Or is this a purely Italian thing?

I'm sort of new to the analogue world. So just like in my academic/research work, I created a template (film dev. log sheet) for my negatives. It is largely to keep an overall record of each roll/sheet of film with pen and paper and on my computer.

Right now I simply write things down on a printed template for each film roll and keep them in a separate folder. Each log sheet and film roll are given the same name/ref number with date + film + developer + roll#. For e.g.,
That way I can check them very quickly. You can download a copy of it, available in two formats, here.

The scanner (low res) option is very good too - especially to skim through them very quickly. But I haven't done it yet.

Bests,
Ashfaque

Chronological date order in my case.
I number each roll simply by the date I shot it, ex. 20160623_01 for roll one I have shot today. Once developed, I (now) scan the the film strips as a contact sheet and file it with tags and labels in Lightroom. I generally remember the period I had taken a particular shot and scrolling around the date of production I find it quite easily. Sometimes I make regular contact sheets and label them with the same concept.

For 35mm I assign a consecutive serial number to each roll. In a notebook I have one line for each number with a word or two for each subject on that roll. If I had started this system in the digital age, I would have done as I do with d*****l files: assign a date YYMMDD to each roll. If there are more than one rolls in a day, add letters to that number for each additional roll. For each subject on each roll, list the start and finish frame number and a very brief description of the subject. This catalog is stored via a word processor. With the search feature in the processor, I can instantly find every instance in about 50,000 images where that description is stored.

About a year ago I noticed that I had made scanned folders like "Bronica TriX #1" and alike, and understood that it was not gonna hold up in the future, so I started to arrange my folders using a specific order, and started to apply this on my existing ones.

From then and on I use this order on scanned folders (and in my phone notes when I load a new roll for exif data):
326 2016 Mamiya 645TL with Rollei RPX 400 at 1600

Each negative sleeve has that number (ex. 326) noted in the corner so that it is easy to find. When I post a picture online, I set the name for that roll in the beginning example: 326_rpx400_03.tif and can easy find it if I want to make a print out of it, need to know what developer I used (yeas I save all data!) or whatever.... just check out my flickr page

I started filing my neg sheets chronologically and then separated by format, but within a format everything is still chronological. Once I started developing, I just started a catalog of rolls from my initials and a 4 digit number starting at 0001. I figured if I developed 10000 rolls after starting in my early fifties, I'd be some sort of phenom. At my current rate and life expectancy, I should die somewhere around 2000, so I left plenty of room .

I sort them once, when I sleeve them.
Each page gets

1. number
2. date
3. place
4. notes

physically written on and then recorded in a database (which is backed up)
When I am looking for a negative it's really easy to find it's corresponding filing number in the database.
This has been my system ever since.

I have an excellent system for all negatives produced during January or February each year. From March onwards, the system fails. Shoe boxes.... they're in there somewhere....

I use ringbinder glassine film sleeves each are numbered like BW1 BW2. CN1 MS 1 for color neg and mounted slides. I also scan them into Lightroom using the same unique numbering so I don't handle film unless I have to. Spreadsheet which describes the roll rated at what speed and film type brand model. Some shots I may have detailed info like shutter aperture and how metered where pointed to like spot meter.

I keep a field/darkroom notebook that records where each film was exposed and other notes. It also is updated after development to include the film, developer and time. This is cross referenced when I return with film numbers of the form YYMMDD a (a = A, B, C, ...), where a is used if more than one roll was shot on a particular day.

The easiest way is to number each film sleeve and create a computer file listing the contents, using obvious keywords. This is easily searched and browsed. I use simple categories and descriptions, partly just to jog my memory. For example,

Sleeve #23 - 120 b&w - "Family - grandsons - back porch - summer 2011"
Sleeve #23 - 120 b&w - "Travel - NYC - Bryant Park, synagogue on Fifth."

Note that both of these examples apply to the same roll of film. It doesn't matter. Most of us usually have a few different subjects on the same roll of film.

I can search on "grandsons" and get all of the sleeves containing grandsons, or I can search more broadly on "Travel" and get all my travel photos (which I probably wouldn't do because I have too many). You can use dates if that is important to you. In general, this is a very simple way to keep track of your material and it is really easy to maintain. You just have to be consistent in the main terms you use so don't go overboard.

In my opinion, elaborate filing systems are a PITA. All you really need is the ability to find your negs in that pile of binders. You don't need to categorize and describe them perfectly.

I worked at the Nation Library/Archives in Canada for most of my working life and my main job was working with large bibliographic and archival retrieval systems with databases of literally tens of millions of records, so I am well aware of the "serious" methods. I just don't need anything that elaborate to find a particular negative. If I had 20 million images, that would be a different story.

I use PrintFile sleeves and stick them chronologically in a big binder. In the notes section I write the date, subject, camera and film used and what it was developed in. I don't do contact sheets, but I have dated folders on the computer with each of the images inside.

Lots of good ideas in the thread here, I'm going to borrow a few of the ideas and see if I can't make a better system.

I will blaspheme and admit I use Lightroom + Vuescan + & various scanners to create retrievable files/negs and cull out-of-focus before ever using paper

MattKing said:

Fabrizio:
This made me smile.
Is there a reason that roll film is of the "masculine" gender?

Is sheet film different ?

Or is this a purely Italian thing?

Click to expand...

Ah, well, of course: rullo, rullino, are masculine, so each of them begins his life
On the other hand, a pellicola piana is feminine, so that begins her life.
We don't have neutral gender in Italian, I think somebody someday will launch a crusade against Italian for being blatantly politically incorrect

Doc W said:

The easiest way is to number each film sleeve and create a computer file listing the contents, using obvious keywords. This is easily searched and browsed. I use simple categories and descriptions, partly just to jog my memory. For example,

Sleeve #23 - 120 b&w - "Family - grandsons - back porch - summer 2011"
Sleeve #23 - 120 b&w - "Travel - NYC - Bryant Park, synagogue on Fifth."

Note that both of these examples apply to the same roll of film. It doesn't matter. Most of us usually have a few different subjects on the same roll of film.

I can search on "grandsons" and get all of the sleeves containing grandsons, or I can search more broadly on "Travel" and get all my travel photos (which I probably wouldn't do because I have too many). You can use dates if that is important to you. In general, this is a very simple way to keep track of your material and it is really easy to maintain. You just have to be consistent in the main terms you use so don't go overboard.

In my opinion, elaborate filing systems are a PITA. All you really need is the ability to find your negs in that pile of binders. You don't need to categorize and describe them perfectly.

I worked at the Nation Library/Archives in Canada for most of my working life and my main job was working with large bibliographic and archival retrieval systems with databases of literally tens of millions of records, so I am well aware of the "serious" methods. I just don't need anything that elaborate to find a particular negative. If I had 20 million images, that would be a different story.

Click to expand...

That is an excellent idea about key words! I'm going to add another field to my template. I think it would be even better if and when I start low res. sc$#ning for quick search. Thanks a lot, Doc.

my negatives are in a state of disarray.
35mm and 120 are in negative sleeves
some have notes in the title of the sleeve, and are in
3 ring binders, some are in sleeves in a large pile.
4x5 film some are stacked on on another in empty film boxes
some by project in an empty film box ( out takes for work )
some in glassine envelopes in a thumbtabbed unbuffered envelope
with site name all in an archival shoe box .. and sadly some are in empty boxes
no names, no tell-tale sign what they are .. in the proverbial mess. 5x7 and 8x10 film negatives
are the same way , in a pile / stack in an empty box. paper negatives ( 35mm-21x15 ) in a stacked pile in a
empty film boxes in a desk drawer, a pile on a flat surface, in a cheep-o chipboard/mdf 4 drawer
rolling cabinet ... all in a pile. glass negatives, glass positives, and metal positives are in empty film boxes too.
LUCKILY my retina prints turn grey or black so i dont' have to organize them not ot say i don't have a handful
of grayish blank sheets of paper of all shapes and sizes that are misplaced in the piles of paper with actual images on them.

good luck organizing !

I also use Lightroom as the main program for cataloguing scans of the negatives.

The negative sleeves are labelled MF-roll number for example MF-R23 which denotes Medium Format Roll23. All scans are then placed inside a folder called MF-R23 on the computer which adds extra security when searching Lightroom.

Also in the folder is a digital contact sheet of all the negatives on that roll because I only store scans of the images which I deem as keepers from that particular roll inside of Lightroom.



When scanning negatives, the Make and Model of the scanner is written to the metadata of the file which to me is useless. I re-write the make and model to represent the make and model of the camera which allows me to quickly ascertain what cameras make and models were used as well as how many images were taken with a particular camera.