How do you meter?

One way is to meter an open shadow (reflectance metering), using an EI of about 1.5X your normal EI. This will give all your negatives similar shadow densities and detail. Since negative film has considerable latitude on the upper side, you should be able to keep highlight detail in almost any circumstance.

If I want to use the Zone System I use the Gossen Luna Pro SBC which I can also use as an incident meter. It also makes accounting for filter conversions easy.

chriscrawfordphoto said:

No, I have the Spotmeter V, which is the last of the line of Pentax meters that had a moving needle. Pentax made both the digital and the V at the same time; the V was a little cheaper and was a lot larger and heavier.

The spotmeter built in to the Sekonic L-758DR is very good, but it is less flare resistant than the Zone VI Pentax I have.

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I unterstand Chris, I should now check again what kind of sekonik types are actuall offered today.It may be my type is a little different to yours.Seconik Studio Deluxe was the name in the past.
Some colleges stated this type is no longer avaible - but it seams so that sekonik build it again due to much demand again.
Well as I staded before it is not often in use - only in cases when I have terrible doubts. AND even in that cases the metering showes exact what I have decided before......
Some oldfashioned long time retired colleges in the past were so much experienced that their messurements was made by their eyes : " Look at this scene here we have a classical 5,6 (100Asa - 1/50sec.) ..look at the background here we have a lost contrast of - 2,5 stops we wouldn't need more light therefore it is just fine to our emulsion....and now you should meter this scene come on hurry up..!!"..

with regards

I shoot 4x5 mostly and use a spotmeter and the Zone System. The Zone System is a visualization tool and allows me to place shadows where I want them (not always where an incident reading would put them) and adjust development to optimize contrast for printing. If I didn't care about the visualization aspects of the Zone System, I could just take a shadow reading and expose; this is much like using an incident meter.

When shooting smaller formats (rarely now), I used the in-camera meter and simply overexposed for contrasty scenes or compensated for high- and low-key situations.

I find incident metering really useful in the studio, where I can adjust lighting ratios, but less so in the field, especially when deviating from what is considered a "normal" rendering of a scene.

Best,

Doremus

Sheet film I meter with a Pentax Digital (Zone VIed) Spotmeter. Generally I expose for detail in the shadows where I want it. I take note of where the highlights will fall and will determine development based on that.

Roll film I use a Luna Pro SBC and generally meter w/o the sky for the grand landscapes, and measure the darkest areas I want detail in for more close-up work.

I use whatever meter is in my pack when I get out the camera. Most of the time I keep my cameras "battery-free" and use a separate handheld meter.

I tend to start out with an incident reading and set the camera f/stop and shutter speed in advance. (With a Weston meter that means "read palm and place on Zone VI"). Then I walk around and when I take a shot I'll either shoot, or double-check the exposure and shoot, depending on the time-sensitive nature of the shot.

If I have time to sit down to think about it, I might get out the spotmeter and do real Zone System metering.

If I have difficult scenes - into the sun kind of thing - I'll use the spotmeter to meter something other than the sun. Had to do that for a lake sunrise a couple weeks ago.

The other night I used the OM-4 spot function to meter a Hooligan's face and shot (knowing I already have the 400 film downrated to 250 I knew I could get away without opening a stop to "place" the reading on Zone VI where it belongs). One shot I didn't hit spot and the camera took a really long exposure, so I know that will be wrong/blurry. Just an example where spot helps.

One way is to meter an open shadow (reflectance metering), using an EI of about 1.25-1.5X your normal EI. This will give all your negatives similar shadow densities and detail. Since negative film has considerable latitude on the upper side, you should be able to keep highlight detail in almost any circumstance. You don't need to use the zone system, all you need to do is capture shadow detail. The film will record more than adequately the brighter areas, but you need to get that shadow detail in the negative from the very start. You don't need to adjust development either. I guarantee this will work!

I use a Leicaflex SL2 with a selective-area meter, which is perfect for this technique. Even though you are using an elevated EI, you won't underexpose, because you are metering the shadow as if it were a mid-tone, and give extra exposure.

michaelorr said:

Did the Zone VI mods change the flare resistance of the Pentax? If so, what was the cause/effect?

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According to the Zone VI Newsletter 11.83.37 which describes in great detail the research and development that went into producing the meter modifications, I quote the following:

Flare and Reflections
Our spectrally modified spot meters were way ahead of any meter we had used, but they still exhibited their original tendency toward flare and reflections under typical conditions. Under extreme conditions (such as a lamp in the picture area) shadow readings were off by six to eight stops. We cured this problem by designing a combination of two baffles that we added to the meters, and by applying a special wideband ultra-black coating (it's black even in the infrared, past 2.2 microns wavelength) to critical parts of the optical path."

I own two Zone VI modified meters, Pentax Digital and Soligor Digital that go with a 4x5 and a Hasselblad systems I use. They both work well and continue to work 25+ years since the modification. For Nikon gear, I use a 1960's Weston Ranger 9 5 degree spot meter with a Ansel Adam's designed Zone Dial on i that I use with 35mm. For studio lighting, i use incident technique Minolta Flash Meter IV going on 25 years old also. I guess it's a testimony that they don't make stuff like they used to.

FWIW: I'm shocked by what new meters cost they. For $900 it should be significantly better than anything that preceded it and they aren't. Light meters still have the same flaws today that they had in 1980, they are just 50x more expensive.[/user]

Wow kreeger you have some cool meters.

I actually don't think flare in a spotmeter is that bad, or that necessary to reduce. I would say it "previews" the flare you will get in the picture anyway.

Vaughn said:

Sheet film I meter with a Pentax Digital (Zone VIed) Spotmeter. Generally I expose for detail in the shadows where I want it. I take note of where the highlights will fall and will determine development based on that...

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Watch out, I just quoted myself! I make carbon prints and platinum prints from in-camera negatives, and I aim the exposure and development of the film to achieve the level of contrast needed for each process. I do not use contrast agents when platinum printing so the negatives need a lot of contrast. Negatives for my carbon printing material require even more contrast. Great prints can be made in both processes with negatives of less contrast, but I have come to appreciate the slight differences in the results for my work...the look, so to speak.

I mention this just to express the notion that the exposure and development of one's film goes hand-in-hand with one's printing process. Maintain good feedback between the two!

I always use a spotmeter (Minolta spotmeter F) be it a portrait or a landscape scene.
But I am still learning to obtain consistent results..

trendland said:

I unterstand Chris, I should now check again what kind of sekonik types are actuall offered today.It may be my type is a little different to yours.Seconik Studio Deluxe was the name in the past.
Some colleges stated this type is no longer avaible - but it seams so that sekonik build it again due to much demand again.
Well as I staded before it is not often in use - only in cases when I have terrible doubts. AND even in that cases the metering showes exact what I have decided before......
Some oldfashioned long time retired colleges in the past were so much experienced that their messurements was made by their eyes : " Look at this scene here we have a classical 5,6 (100Asa - 1/50sec.) ..look at the background here we have a lost contrast of - 2,5 stops we wouldn't need more light therefore it is just fine to our emulsion....and now you should meter this scene come on hurry up..!!"..

with regards

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Sekonic still makes the Studio Deluxe. The current version is called the "L-398A Studio Deluxe III." It is just like the old one, an incident light meter that does not require a battery and has very poor low-light sensitivity, but is very accurate in brighter light.

The L-758 is an advanced computerized meter with digital readout. It has both an incident meter and a one-degree spotmeter built in to it. It can be calibrated to match the actual ISO sensitivity and dynamic range of a digital camera using software that comes with it if you're willing to buy the $130 profiling target they make (should be included in my opinion, given that the meter was $650). I did, and it works great. Perfectly accurate with film, too. Sekonic just replaced it with the L-858, which has incredible lowlight capability. Down to EV -5 with the incident meter and EV -2 with the spotmeter. I want one!

I have a Gossen meter that I like, and the spot attachment and all that. I haven't used it in a few years. For natural light pics, I just guess, using "sunny 11-1/3" as a basis and try and figure how down the shot is from direct sunlight. I'm usually close enough that I can delude myself into thinking exposure is less of a problem than camera shake or somebody walking in front of my composition. For flash I just go by what's on the flashbulb package or the back of the electronic unit. I'm trying to wean myself from battery-operated devices, mostly because I like the idea that I can just grab a camera and some film and that's it. But I am keeping my Oly XA-- that thing knows how to expose!

chriscrawfordphoto said:

Sekonic still makes the Studio Deluxe. The current version is called the "L-398A Studio Deluxe III." It is just like the old one, an incident light meter that does not require a battery and has very poor low-light sensitivity, but is very accurate in brighter light.

The L-758 is an advanced computerized meter with digital readout. It has both an incident meter and a one-degree spotmeter built in to it. It can be calibrated to match the actual ISO sensitivity and dynamic range of a digital camera using software that comes with it if you're willing to buy the $130 profiling target they make (should be included in my opinion, given that the meter was $650). I did, and it works great. Perfectly accurate with film, too. Sekonic just replaced it with the L-858, which has incredible lowlight capability. Down to EV -5 with the incident meter and EV -2 with the spotmeter. I want one!

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Ahh. ...I see, perhaps I will buy a new studio de luxe.The one I have is from 1995 ....

Thanks for the info Chris.

with regards

Post 35 by Vaughn is completely how I see it, each process that one wants to work with will require consideration when making the exposure and development.

I find for Lith Printing I want a very contrast negative much like one required for Pt Pd
I am finding that a good negative for silver gelatin looks exactly like the kind of negative I am wanting for gum.

In fact I am customizing my digital negatives with this in mind and have decided that I will let my eyes tell me when the neg is good and not get myself caught up with all the fancy crap.

Leigh B said:

I usually do a single incident reading from the camera position.

If there's something unusual about the scene I might do a 1-deg spot meter, but seldom.

If I need to capture unusual shadow detail I'll open up a stop or slow the shutter.

- Leigh

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From the camera position.?
I thought the incident meter was used at the subject being photographed, with the meter pointed back to the camera.?
Thank You

chassis said:

There is a treasure of information on the Sekonic website, on all metering topics imaginable. This is one that is close to my practice.

http://m.sekonic.com/united-states/whatisyourspecialty/photographer.aspx?page=5

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Wow....add me as another member thankful for this.
It certainly makes for a good reference.
Thanks Again

I like using simple and often batteryless meters (but then, I am not a pro)

Incident: I have found that incident metering in strong light/high contrast can be tricky and is definitely underexposed if the meter is held in the sun. Turning the dome in 1/3 light and 2/3 shadow gets it right.

Reflective: I am surprised at how often my Weston V gets it right simply by taking the reflective reading.

If light is difficult to understand, I'm using iPhone free meter. It is most accurate and most convenient method. I could place meter spot area exactly where I want. I could read different spots by doing of it, see how image will be affected.

For fast and easy - Sekonic 208L Twinmate with sphere slide on the sensor, towards the light source.

I have used only battery driven light meters for years. The only problem is that I make sure that I have spares before I go on a big trip.

I usually just use the meter in my camera. If possible I walk up to the subject until it fills my viewfinder, meter, then step back and compose. I have a few cameras that don't have a meter though. In that case I just use a light meter app on my phone (incident) and walk up to the subject. If I can't get near my subject I just trust my cameras light meter and apply a few simple rules found in the kodak master photo guide.

Ces1um said:

I usually just use the meter in my camera. If possible I walk up to the subject until it fills my viewfinder, meter, then step back and compose. I have a few cameras that don't have a meter though. In that case I just use a light meter app on my phone (incident) and walk up to the subject. If I can't get near my subject I just trust my cameras light meter and apply a few simple rules found in the kodak master photo guide.

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So...after you meter...you consider the light of the subject.?
If it is kind of full of different Colors/Light Values, that seem "average"...you maybe go with the meter...but if there is a whole bunch of Light/White or a lot of Shadow/Black you adjust a stop either way maybe.?

CMoore said:

So...after you meter...you consider the light of the subject.?
If it is kind of full of different Colors/Light Values, that seem "average"...you maybe go with the meter...but if there is a whole bunch of Light/White or a lot of Shadow/Black you adjust a stop either way maybe.?

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No- not exactly. I meter the subject because for me, that's what I want to be exposed properly. If this blows out the background I'm ok with that. But my meter can be fooled of course so sometimes I'll open it up a stop if the subject is very backlit and I don't want a silhouette or I'll overexpose by a stop or more if I'm photographing snow so it looks white and not dullish grey. Things like that.
I'd love a proper incident meter but I don't have one and there's none around here to be looked at in store. I think I'd improve my photography with one but for now I have to make due with what I've got.

For Large format, I spot meter high and low values and use average function, then adjust +-1 stop depending on the range of EVs to place desired shadows on zone 3 or 4. Adjust development as needed one sheet at a time.
For rangefinders, I go with the camera's meter or may make a small adjustment if bright or dark scene.

esearing said:

For Large format, I spot meter high and low values and use average function, then adjust +-1 stop depending on the range of EVs to place desired shadows on zone 3 or 4. Adjust development as needed one sheet at a time.
For rangefinders, I go with the camera's meter or may make a small adjustment if bright or dark scene.

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I've read about the zone system but I haven't taken the plunge into large format yet. It seems like it would be very rewarding but I don't have the technical skills or knowledge for it. I'm constantly amazed here on APUG on how much the members know about film photography.