How do you meter?

John Wiegerink · Jun 24, 2017

I'm just a little curious as to how folks meter their scenes. I'm mainly interested in incident readings, but also reflected style differs by many folks too. When I started I only had a cheap old GE meter and used only reflected readings. I didn't know anything about the Zone System so I just pointed the damn thing at my subject and shot at what it said. Most of the time my shot of the great outdoors came out fine or the metered close portrait, but some stuff I shot where the lighting was a little wacky didn't come out the way I thought it should. I blamed the cheap meter, the lab since I didn't process my own. I went for a few years like that and then bought a Norwood Directors meter, which is now called the Sekonic 398 I believe. I learned to read in incident only and notice almost all my shots came out better. Then the apple cart got upset when I took a college course on the Zone System and everything went back to reflected, mainly spot, metering. I got a new Luna Pro and started over again. It worked and worked fine if you remembered what to do and what to meter. After a period I started into weddings and then used mainly a flash meter. Once I retired from that I went back to enjoying photography for myself. I bought a Luna Star F meter that has incident and a 5 degree spot attachment and still use itt. I've only used the incident dome of late and seem to get by just fine with the materials and processing style I use. Now, the question is how do other folks meter a using their incident meters. Say, for and average "high in the sky" sunny summer day with puffy white clouds?

P.S. Sorry for being long winded, but the damn coffee made me do it!

bdial · Jun 24, 2017

With hand-held meters I usually use incident readings.
The devil is in the details though, you still need to consider how the light is illuminating your subject.

A sunny day with big clouds can occasionally be trickier than you'd think. For example, if you're photographing a large expanse of landscape, you may be in direct sun with a large portion of your scene (maybe even all of it) shaded by the clouds. An incident reading with the dome in sunlight may not be what you want in that case.

removed account4 · Jun 24, 2017

if i meter at all ... ( i do sunny 11 )
dome/incident reading in brightest part and i take a 2nd reading sometimes
in a shaded/open shade to see the difference .. i sometimes average the 2, or weight towards one or the other ..
or i reject both readings and do something else ...
if it is flat light i just take 1 reading

chassis · Jun 24, 2017

Generally I use incident metering. I point the dome toward the camera and take a reading. Same approach for natural light and studio strobe. If lighting ratio is important I take additional readings on the bright and dark sides of the subject, with the dome facing the light source.

hacked - sepiareverb · Jun 24, 2017

Prefer incident as well. One reading with dome towards camera almost always. If in the woods I stick to the shadows.

chassis · Jun 24, 2017

There is a treasure of information on the Sekonic website, on all metering topics imaginable. This is one that is close to my practice.

http://m.sekonic.com/united-states/whatisyourspecialty/photographer.aspx?page=5

tedr1 · Jun 24, 2017

Either sunny 16, or one degree spotmeter and zone system (simple version )

John Wiegerink · Jun 24, 2017

chassis said:
There is a treasure of information on the Sekonic website, on all metering topics imaginable. This is one that is close to my practice.

http://m.sekonic.com/united-states/whatisyourspecialty/photographer.aspx?page=5

Yes, extremely informative site and very easy to follow.

trendland · Jun 24, 2017

John Wiegerink said:
I'm just a little curious as to how folks meter their scenes. I'm mainly interested in incident readings, but also reflected style differs by many folks too. When I started I only had a cheap old GE meter and used only reflected readings. I didn't know anything about the Zone System so I just pointed the damn thing at my subject and shot at what it said. Most of the time my shot of the great outdoors came out fine or the metered close portrait, but some stuff I shot where the lighting was a little wacky didn't come out the way I thought it should. I blamed the cheap meter, the lab since I didn't process my own. I went for a few years like that and then bought a Norwood Directors meter, which is now called the Sekonic 398 I believe. I learned to read in incident only and notice almost all my shots came out better. Then the apple cart got upset when I took a college course on the Zone System and everything went back to reflected, mainly spot, metering. I got a new Luna Pro and started over again. It worked and worked fine if you remembered what to do and what to meter. After a period I started into weddings and then used mainly a flash meter. Once I retired from that I went back to enjoying photography for myself. I bought a Luna Star F meter that has incident and a 5 degree spot attachment and still use itt. I've only used the incident dome of late and seem to get by just fine with the materials and processing style I use. Now, the question is how do other folks meter a using their incident meters. Say, for and average "high in the sky" sunny summer day with puffy white clouds?

P.S. Sorry for being long winded, but the damn coffee made me do it!

Pls. don't care about the metering of a scene to much !
John - perhaps care on your intention to
a scene. Often the light you should see is still there. But you have to notice it.
You should imagine how the IMPRESSION of the light you see could change when you change the kind of exposure you will have normaly.

That is a great recomandation your thoughts are? One of the kind nowbody knows what is meant?
That is the theme John - nobody knows !
You should have good eyes to imagine
an IMPRESSION never seen before.
Therefore you brain is most responsible for.
As I personaly learned correct exposure of film - it bores me that way that I indeed sometimes do No care about.

Just make an exposure series wenn you are not sure.

To the simple technics - I also have the
Seconic but it showed offen what I knew
before.
I have a spotmeter too - sometimes helpfull.
But everyrhing one can imagine is to every good camera today build in.
The 1000% best exposured szene is No guarantee to an interesting shot.
Comming to night shots - how to messure? Try and error - most messured
shots are nothing against overexposures.

The best messurement is still : No messurement !
The best sentence if you got this is :
" Oh - here I have to messure - I am forced to do so "

with regards

trendland · Jun 24, 2017

By the times : Does anybody know where
Sunny 8 comes from (period) ?

And what is the reference in exposure time.
I often thought to 1/60 sec. but it makes
no sense - so you would have only ISO25.
So the period "sunny 8" is a time before the 50th caused from ISO25 films for outdoor shots ?

with regards

Leigh B · Jun 24, 2017

I usually do a single incident reading from the camera position.

If there's something unusual about the scene I might do a 1-deg spot meter, but seldom.

If I need to capture unusual shadow detail I'll open up a stop or slow the shutter.

- Leigh

John Wiegerink · Jun 24, 2017

Leigh B said:
I usually do a single incident reading from the camera position.

If there's something unusual about the scene I might do a 1-deg spot meter, but seldom.

If I need to capture unusual shadow detail I'll open up a stop or slow the shutter.

- Leigh

Yup, kind of the pattern I follow too. I used to be real fussy and spent more time metering with my spot meter than actually taking the shot. It wasn't until I forgot to put my spot attachment on and left it home without it that I discovered I had wasted much time spot metering. I used the incident dome for 7 film holders and things were near perfect. I now have several different procedures for incident metering the different type films and my two main developers. I have found life much easier and my result are certainly no worse. When you get my age time starts to become very important and I don't waste it anymore. Except for sleeping that is.

Adrian Bacon · Jun 24, 2017

If I'm shooting a manual camera and a negative film, in general, I take an incident reading in the shadow area I want to retain details in and close the aperture down by one stop from that. For an auto exposure camera, depending on the scene I'll either let the camera meter, or I'll move the exposure compensation dial.

If I'm shooting something with people in it, I take an incident reading where the skins tones are, then generally add a stop, just to make sure that I've got the skin tones well into the curve where I'm going to have lots of discrete tone values to work with.

I always just let the highlights fall where they may on the negative.

I scan, so I just apply an appropriate curve to pull in the highlights I want after I set the general exposure and shadows.

wiltw · Jun 24, 2017

Incident light reading: when the purpose of the metering is to determine the exposure which records a mid-tone (18%) gray target in the middle of the tonal scale between 'black' and 'white'

Spotmeter reading: when it is necessary to see where [the shadow detail intended to be in the photo] vs. [the highlight detail intended to be in the photo] each fall,

so one can decide what zone(s) to sacrifice, or
what supplemental lighting is needed to lower the dynamic range, or
suitable gradient filtration drops the dynamic range of the scene

...because

the tonal range of the film is inadequate to fit the entire dynamic range
the printed media intended for photo reproduction with offset press has a more limited dynamic range than the film.

tomfrh · Jun 24, 2017

I use the in camera meter. If it's a normal scene I leave it on evaluative metering. If I know the camera will be fooled I'll put it on spot/partial metering and wave in around the scene making sure things are in the right zones. Alternatively I'll meter my hand at put it in zone 6-7

jvo · Jun 24, 2017

bdial said:
With hand-held meters I usually use incident readings.
The devil is in the details though, you still need to consider how the light is illuminating your subject.

A sunny day with big clouds can occasionally be trickier than you'd think. For example, if you're photographing a large expanse of landscape, you may be in direct sun with a large portion of your scene (maybe even all of it) shaded by the clouds. An incident reading with the dome in sunlight may not be what you want in that case.

what he said... use a luna-lux which has a zone system dial... works perfect.

Sirius Glass · Jun 24, 2017

Reflectance meter is never aimed to include the sky.
Incidence meter is aim towards where the camera will be with the dome. I use this for photographs that will be mostly dark or mostly light. especially for overcasts snowy days.
When all else fails, follow the instruction manual.

mhanc · Jun 25, 2017

on camera meter readings adjusted for any meter fooling scene-specifics, such as snow, usually do the job in most cases. sometimes i carry a spot meter, 18% grey card, and a handheld weston meter w/ incident dome for when i want to get precise. for most of my shots, i meter to get crisp highlights and then let the shadows fall where they may - the exception here is to make sure any skin tones end up in the right zone.

and then, of course, i bracket...

chriscrawfordphoto · Jun 25, 2017

I have a huge collection of light meters.

When I shoot BW film, I use a spotmeter and the zone system. Usually I use a Zone VI Modified Pentax Spotmeter V, but sometimes I use my Sekonic L-758DR.

When I shoot color transparency or digital, I use an incident meter. Usually the Sekonic L-758DR.

Kawaiithulhu · Jun 25, 2017

Incident when possible, always preferable.
Center weighted reflected and I'll aim it away from overbearing patches of light and freeze the setting before the shot.

Nothing too complicated. I found that if I went to the extra trouble to spot meter I was almost always within a stop and a minute late.

I am not a fine art photographer 99% of the time

mshchem · Jun 25, 2017

Incident and I use the little black book Kodak Photoguide. The Sun doesn't change (well not in my lifetime) For artificial light I put a flat disk diffuser on my Minolta IV-F to adjust flash ratio. I've had spot meters, to me they just take too much time for what I can figure out.

trendland · Jun 25, 2017

chriscrawfordphoto said:
I have a huge collection of light meters.

When I shoot BW film, I use a spotmeter and the zone system. Usually I use a Zone VI Modified Pentax Spotmeter V, but sometimes I use my Sekonic L-758DR.

When I shoot color transparency or digital, I use an incident meter. Usually the Sekonic L-758DR.

That is the most wanted equipment I know from my old company.
The legendary Pentax Spotmeter.
Do you mean the "Pentax Digital Spotmeter" with red led indicators ?
At the beginning we have had 6 (or let's say perhaps 7) of this type.

with regards

Bob Carnie · Jun 25, 2017

Incident and Sunny F16

chriscrawfordphoto · Jun 25, 2017

trendland said:
That is the most wanted equipment I know from my old company.
The legendary Pentax Spotmeter.
Do you mean the "Pentax Digital Spotmeter" with red led indicators ?
At the beginning we have had 6 (or let's say perhaps 7) of this type.

with regards

No, I have the Spotmeter V, which is the last of the line of Pentax meters that had a moving needle. Pentax made both the digital and the V at the same time; the V was a little cheaper and was a lot larger and heavier.

The spotmeter built in to the Sekonic L-758DR is very good, but it is less flare resistant than the Zone VI Pentax I have.

michaelorr · Jun 25, 2017

@chriscrawfordphoto for a $900 meter that is an absolutely terrible endorsement! I will keep my P-v and start looking for another one. And, i don't have any use for digital readouts without analog calculating rings to assist in visualising the SBR.

Did the Zone VI mods change the flare resistance of the Pentax? If so, what was the cause/effect? I am wondering if is should change the way i use or interpret the readings from mine. Some days i just feel like it is reading less delta that is in the scene.

How do you meter?

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