how do you meter a sunset with an incident meter?

destroya · Feb 15, 2019

I would like to bring my fuji gsw690 with me on vacation and one of the great shots at this beach location are sunsets over the ocean. in the past I have used SLR's, which have reflective meters, and the results are what I expect. I would like to get a few with a larger piece of film.

I have researched metering sunset with incident meters, and 2 suggestions seem to be suggested the most
1) point the dome straight up and meter the sky.
2) point the dome at the sunset itself and subtract 2 stops.

Just wondering how you do it and do you/did you like the results.

many thanks

john

Sirius Glass · Feb 15, 2019

One of the few times I bracket, but there must be a better way such as using a spot meter to determine the setting for Zone 2, 3, or 4.

trendland · Feb 15, 2019

destroya said:
I would like to bring my fuji gsw690 with me on vacation and one of the great shots at this beach location are sunsets over the ocean. in the past I have used SLR's, which have reflective meters, and the results are what I expect. I would like to get a few with a larger piece of film.

I have researched metering sunset with incident meters, and 2 suggestions seem to be suggested the most
1) point the dome straight up and meter the sky.
2) point the dome at the sunset itself and subtract 2 stops.

Just wondering how you do it and do you/did you like the results.

many thanks

john

Where is the problem destroyer? Every child is able to shot nice sunset pictures. Also today (on film).
OK most photographers do it very easy with digital (HDR for example) not to forget the masses oft I Phone shooters.
How complicate is it with film?
In details : with c41 films you should be correct (from exposure) at 1 - 2 stops (1/2 stop underexposure - 1,5 stop overexposure).
With E6 Films you should be correct to 1/3 stop. That is all you habe to know.

But if you would make a philosophy from exposure with any kind oft meters (no one is correct to 100% from my point) you will make it complicate to yourself....
Because oft what ? Because of : the light condition during sunset/sunrise is often so fast (and extreme) changing from different kind oft parameters (clouds,dust a.s.o) !
What you (perhaps) need is a little more experience - and (more relevant) much less respect to
extreme light situations.

And you will need a little more film for your shooting. (Offen we are wasting expensive film to unspectacular subjects - right).
With sunset shots we should make it different.
All what you will need is a basis mesurement (but beware off - you might need this basis mesurement during the extreme phase of sunset every 2 minutes) the rest then will be an extensive exposure series.

with regards

PS : I remember a sunset shooting at Vancouver Island. Perhaps you know this very nice location
(at the beach just direct behind the bridge to Vancouver Island - with that nice archetecture buildings an lots of tankers in the bay).
I shot Kodak E6 with Pentax K1000 - parallel I shot Super8 timelapse.
If you know Pentax K1000 (the mesurement is very poor - but quite ok.)
And the full shooting was just within max. 15 min. after this the sun wasn't nice enough.
And I used 3 full 135-36 films (to reload the camera I used timelapse workflow so as my Super8
Camera wich made " click...click...click...." the whole time. (Super8 film exposures was just a couple of meters - so timelapse on motion film is very economical)

PPS : some of the best pictures of my life! But just with 35mm film.....

trendland · Feb 15, 2019

Forgetting to state : Fuji GSW 690 ....120 film.......? 8 shots per film -- right?

Never mind : You have to reload your Fuji very fast. And I would calculate 5 - 8 films....!

You don't have a second Fuji ? Why not to shot 35mm paralel.

with regards

PS : I used Ektachrome 220 in the past - with Pentax 67II you can make 21 exposures per film.

PPS : Ektachrome 220 will not come back - I didn't state this - no fear...!

Peltigera · Feb 15, 2019

destroya said:
I would like to bring my fuji gsw690 with me on vacation and one of the great shots at this beach location are sunsets over the ocean. in the past I have used SLR's, which have reflective meters, and the results are what I expect. I would like to get a few with a larger piece of film.

I have researched metering sunset with incident meters, and 2 suggestions seem to be suggested the most
1) point the dome straight up and meter the sky.
2) point the dome at the sunset itself and subtract 2 stops.

Just wondering how you do it and do you/did you like the results.

many thanks

john

Incident metering measures the light falling on the subject. With a sunset, there is no light falling on the subject as you are basically photographing the light sorurce so I would have thought that incident metering was pointless/impossible.

Mainecoonmaniac · Feb 15, 2019

Incident meters are useful if you plan to light your subject with the setting sun. If you want to shoot at the sunset, I would use a reflected reading and start bracket at 2 stops over the reflected reading. A light meter always exposes for middle gray or 18% gray. The setting sun is much brighter than that so you have to "overexpose" what the meter tells you.

benjiboy · Feb 15, 2019

You don't, you use a reflective meter, because it's not what incidental light meters were intended for.

trendland · Feb 15, 2019

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Incident meters are useful if you plan to light your subject with the setting sun. If you want to shoot at the sunset, I would use a reflected reading and start bracket at 2 stops over the reflected reading. A light meter always exposes for middle gray or 18% gray. The setting sun is much brighter than that so you have to "overexpose" what the meter tells you.

Right , exactly " the setting sun is much brighter."...so you have to correct what the meter tells you. This "correction" is best made by "try and error" with exposure series.
Because of : it depends from " the color " you want to have to your sun!
If you will have any "nearly correct" exposure from mesurement your meter will make the decision
what color your sun (and the sky) have to have...!
By the way : No spotmetering into the sun (beware of your eyes).
Exeption 6000mm lens (I remember with more than one extender) and I came over aperature 64,
may be it das indeed aperature 128....or more . but without real sharpness (bad tripot...)

with regards

MattKing · Feb 15, 2019

If there is foreground detail that you wish to retain, the incident meter can provide useful information.
Other than that though, an incident meter isn't ideal.
That being said, you could probably build up a useful personal database respecting the relationship between how much light is coming to you from the sunset, and what sorts of exposure result in favourable results. That would require a fair amount of bracketing, and lots of detailed record keeping and analysis of the results.

Chan Tran · Feb 15, 2019

The best meter for sunset is the spotmeter. Otherwise a wide angle reflected meter is OK. It's not possible to use an incident meter to measure the sunset.

wiltw · Feb 15, 2019

Chan Tran said:
The best meter for sunset is the spotmeter. Otherwise a wide angle reflected meter is OK. It's not possible to use an incident meter to measure the sunset.

^^^
If you want saturation of sunset sky, aim the spotmeter at the sunset and use that reading...if want darker/more saturated colors, -1EV from the reading. +1EV exposure results in bright and less saturated sky colors.

destroya · Feb 15, 2019

I'm well aware that a spot meter is best, then reflective. I really dont want to go thru customs and security with a gun shaped spot meter in my carry on.

Guess I'll just use my old faithful, nikon FA. dont think Ive missed a sunset with that camera. I'll give the mamiya 6 a try as well, but I dont really trust that meter in difficult light situations.

destroya · Feb 15, 2019

i'll bring the incident meter anyway and give it a try on a roll. nothing to lose but lots to gain if I can find a way to get something usable.

WilmarcoImaging · Feb 15, 2019

Spot meter is the right tool. No issues with airports. If still worried, use a smartphone light meter app. It works.

Kino · Feb 15, 2019

Turn your incident dome full on to the sunset. Note reading.
Turn your incident dome full away to the sunset. Note reading.
Take the difference between the two and give your scene + 2/3 increase in the difference range between the low and the high readings.

Low + 2/3 of the difference.

Arklatexian · Feb 15, 2019

destroya said:
I would like to bring my fuji gsw690 with me on vacation and one of the great shots at this beach location are sunsets over the ocean. in the past I have used SLR's, which have reflective meters, and the results are what I expect. I would like to get a few with a larger piece of film.

I have researched metering sunset with incident meters, and 2 suggestions seem to be suggested the most
1) point the dome straight up and meter the sky.
2) point the dome at the sunset itself and subtract 2 stops.

Just wondering how you do it and do you/did you like the results.

many thanks

john

I give up. How DO you photograph a sunset with an incident light meter? For that matter, how do you meter a sunset with a "reflected light" meter that gives you a good result every time, especially in B&W?..........Regards!

mshchem · Feb 15, 2019

Get a couple old Kodak guide books. The little master photoguide or the newer bigger pro photoguide. I wouldn't point anything at the sun. The guides have suggested exposure for skylines immediately after sunset( 100 ISO 30th f8), 10 minutes after sunset(30th f5.6). You are after the skylight.
If you are photographing the sun, it better be darn near set, I would try sunny 16. I use Minolta incident meters ,you can get a little attachment for 5° direct readings. I wouldn't point it directly at the sun.

I was out in Yellowstone park this last August . DSLR doesn't make it any easier. I ended up shooting auto bracket, something like 9 shots at a time 1/2 EV apart . All my best shots were on Fujichrome Provia-F auto bracket 3 exposures +/- 1/2 EV. I mounted the 1 of the 3 that was best. (In daylight )

If you have a F5 or similar that might give you a good reading then bracket . If you are shooting color negative and going to a minilab ,you can bracket the daylights out of Kodak professional film and the computer will make identical "corrected" prints. Portra is good for 2 stops under and 4 stops over, and will still make an acceptable print.

A really amazing Fujichrome 6x9 would be a joy, pick a middle ground and bracket an entire roll, 1/3 or 1/2 EV apart.

I have the same camera and a bunch of Velvia. Report your findings .

Best Regards Mike

mrosenlof · Feb 15, 2019

Another vote for the old Kodak guide books. They have good info for night photos also.

Alan Edward Klein · Feb 16, 2019

Bracket Bracket Bracket.

Poisson Du Jour · Feb 16, 2019

A multispot/averaging meter with selective weighting is a lot better than incident, especially if the sky has different tones (clouds etc.) to the landscape, or of the landscape/sky difference is significant. A multispot meter will have no trouble with such scenes, provided it is used competently and knowledgably.

The sky is not [multispot-] metered in most of my imaging. If there are clouds or mixed tones through the sky that I want to complement the landscape, metering there will take place, at the end of the serial spots where the lanscape takes priority. Otherwise, vast blank expanses of coloured nothingness are not metered.

Philippe-Georges · Nov 19, 2019

With my sekonic lightmeter, I hold it oriented sidewards so the sun hits the dome under 90 degrees, then I bracket a lot. I shoot Tri-X120 @ 400 ASA (Hasselblad) and develop in pyrocat HD.

rayonline_nz · Dec 25, 2019

I agree with others, a incident meter is pointless with a sunset / sunrise. I have set aside a half a roll of slides with Velvia to test and test to answer my curiosity. I used my Nikon F100 with 35mm Velvia 50 to test it so i t was less expensive than 120 format. I used my Sekonic spot meter. You can also use a film or a dSLR which has a spot meter function with a medium telephoto lens.

Speaking of myself. I spot meter the yellow orange sky but not the actual bright sky with a SPOT METER. I might actually overexpose +0.3EV which funny enough I have learnt to do that rating Velvia 50 at 50 but many people do override the ISO to ISO 40 or something.

Also like others have said if you use a film or a digital SLR with the spot meter function. You could spent a few evenings there and write notes then you don't need a light meter.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 25, 2019

destroya said:
I would like to bring my fuji gsw690 with me on vacation and one of the great shots at this beach location are sunsets over the ocean. in the past I have used SLR's, which have reflective meters, and the results are what I expect. I would like to get a few with a larger piece of film.

I have researched metering sunset with incident meters, and 2 suggestions seem to be suggested the most
1) point the dome straight up and meter the sky.
2) point the dome at the sunset itself and subtract 2 stops.

Just wondering how you do it and do you/did you like the results.

many thanks

john

from the ISS.. EV15 by the way!

benjiboy · Mar 7, 2020

Peltigera said:
Incident metering measures the light falling on the subject. With a sunset, there is no light falling on the subject as you are basically photographing the light sorurce so I would have thought that incident metering was pointless/impossible.

I agree if you have any sense you should take a reflected light reading and point the meter down a little below the horizon.

pentaxuser · Mar 7, 2020

destroya said:
i'll bring the incident meter anyway and give it a try on a roll. nothing to lose but lots to gain if I can find a way to get something usable.

How did things turn out with the incident meter? Thanks

pentaxuser

how do you meter a sunset with an incident meter?

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