How do you integrate BOTH digital and film workflows?

[ted_smith]

Hi

I am dieing to try and understand how photographers who shoot BOTH digital and film are integrating both mediums into their workflow?

Example - you're at a wedding and you shoot 100 digital images using one camera. Concurrently you shoot 4 or 5 rolls of film. How do the images go from both cameras to the single finished album? What workflow process do you use to do that? And how do you show your clients what you've done? Do you show them the printed film shots and then on screen, the digital? If so, how do you accomodate the varying degrees of visual quality (prints generally looking better than the screen renditions)

I ask because so many of the printing systems now seem to be aimed at the digital file (Blurb, Photobox etc) and it makes getting the film image into the same system either expensive and\or or time consuming. I have a Nikon LS-2000 negative & slide scanner, for example. But a full res full detail scan takes about 20 minutes per image! That's not to mention the 5 or 6 to have the film processed and, potentially, another 5 or 6 to have 6x4 proofs printed. On top of that, there's the option of having the processed negas burnt to CD for you (to save time scanning them in), but at around 14 per film (for full quality images), you're looking at about 25 ($50) for processing, proof production and an electronic equivalent that you can optimize for e-mailing or web showcase.

Please, someone enligten me as to how you're doing both.

Ted

 

[Donsta]

Hi

I am dieing to try and understand how photographers who shoot BOTH digital and film are integrating both mediums into their workflow?

Example - you're at a wedding and you shoot 100 digital images using one camera. Concurrently you shoot 4 or 5 rolls of film. How do the images go from both cameras to the single finished album? What workflow process do you use to do that? And how do you show your clients what you've done? Do you show them the printed film shots and then on screen, the digital? If so, how do you accomodate the varying degrees of visual quality (prints generally looking better than the screen renditions)

I ask because so many of the printing systems now seem to be aimed at the digital file (Blurb, Photobox etc) and it makes getting the film image into the same system either expensive and\or or time consuming. I have a Nikon LS-2000 negative & slide scanner, for example. But a full res full detail scan takes about 20 minutes per image! That's not to mention the 5 or 6 to have the film processed and, potentially, another 5 or 6 to have 6x4 proofs printed. On top of that, there's the option of having the processed negas burnt to CD for you (to save time scanning them in), but at around 14 per film (for full quality images), you're looking at about 25 ($50) for processing, proof production and an electronic equivalent that you can optimize for e-mailing or web showcase.

Please, someone enligten me as to how you're doing both.

Ted

I don't hink anyone here is doing "wedding" type production with a hybrid process - it's my impression that most of what goes on here is aimed at the "art market" - low volume/high quality. That said, your scanner is a snail in comparison to some - my 35mm scanner pops out 6 5400DPI 35mm scans in 16 bit color in about 5 minutes - I can scan an entire roll easily in 40 minutes. I have a Jobo processor and it would be perfectly feasible to process and scan at high resolution 5 rolls of either E6, C41 or B&W in a morning - not nearly as efficient perhaps as a DSLR, but not bad either. That said, I'd guess that apart from some high end portraiture and architectural shooting (both tend to be low volume/high quality), I doubt anyone on this forum is too concerned with the extra time and effort involved with a hybrid process - it's aimed at absolute quality. If there's a cost benefit analysis around time with high volumes in mind, a pure digital workflow would have to win almost all the time.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Hi Ted

Great question , in fact it is one very close to my heart and current lifestyle.

Our lab has not given up film , enlargers . But we have invested heavily on digital gear.
This has taken us the better part of five years to even think we have got it right or close. I will list the workflow we do now and maybe you can see the direction we have taken, where we are now, and where we are going in the not so distant future.

Please remember that even though this will seem a plug for Elevator I have been waiting for a question like this for quite a while to discuss issues.There is a lot of bullshit on various sites about one process better than the other and my last few years have given me a definate idea on the issue.

First off we have three film processors, one for mini lab or images where our clients are budget driven, we also have two Jobos and do C41 and Black White custom one shot runs for clients wanting the cleanest film.
We are in the midst of purchasing a custom built rotary film system to handle film from 35mm to 30 x40 inch film.*sounds crazy but at the end you will see why*
We have 4 scanning setups currently, purchase of a Creo Supreme is within months, Imocan Scanner, Epson flatbead, phaseback for flat scan and arriving this week a frontend of a Fuji Frontier to do roll scans. *in future we will be using a betterlight scanning back as well*

With the above we can produce any kind of scan for our clients needs and budget. We are using Lightroom to produce contact sheets and small proofs and the Lambda 76 to produce large prints.
The Lambda has allowed us to do wet colour prints and as well wet fibre prints. All incoming files to this exposing unit are at 400ppi resolution and we are very very happy with the results.

The Lambda fibres are processed in a very large sink 50inch x 35ft and we are able to do a continuous line of production.
Beside the sink room we have traditional enlargers that give us the option of producing shows from small prints to 48x96 in murals wet.

Off the scanning we have the current Cannon 60inch and soon to purchase current Epson 60 to produce very large ink prints.

Presently we are split 50/50 with wet chemical prints and ink prints.
We feel on the commercial side we will probably move more 70/30 to ink
and on the art show side we will probably move to 80/20 to wet *reasons to come at the end*

Currently in our shop, we are seeing a 50/50 split in incoming source matereial.. film vs digital capture.
Toronto for those interested is probably one of the most digitally aware citys for photographers, it seems everyone professionally has made the switch, but our lab has a lot of film , I guess because we support it.

On a personal aside, both my business partner and I prefer to shoot film, scan and then print. We select the process based on practicality and longevity.**more at the end** for example I love solorizations and the only way I can get what I want is on a enlarger, that also goes for lith prints which is very prominent in our workflow.
My partner shoots HPF processed in PMK and we scan at high resolution and wet print on Harmon fiber and then tri tone the images.
For the commercial side of our operation we both shoot colour neg film and then scan for ink or wet prints.
We use the rapid processor for these commercial jobs and fuji roll scanner to lightroom to quickly get in front of our clients eyes what we are doing and from there use Photoshop to create the image.

One point that may not be obvious, but from my history of learning the photographic process, PS is a very powerful learning tool and over the last three years I have spent countless hours studying it and now lightroom.
A suprising result of this is I do fully understand the Zone System now , I understand how the film , paper, curves are important and has made me a better split contrast analogue printer.

All of the above equipment is great only if one is willing to learn with it and try other things.
Six years ago I put agfa classic in a lambda, against everyones advice that it would not work. It indeed did work and now we see 10 labs worldwide offering this service, I am hoping a school will do this and I will offer my services to any school willing to give it a try.
Today , I have purchased some wide black and white film on long roll and with my good friend Sandy King we are going to investigate the possibilitys of producing lambda film for alternative processes, Platinum, Carbon, POP, Van Dyke , Cyanotype , Gum.
But what is really my dream is to use the Lambda and all this highend fancy gear, with some technical help from here and other sites seperate film to produce cmyk films for full continuous tone colour prints that have longevity properties that outlast any current ink or colour wet process.
In fact I am so confident that we are dropping our Ciba line to make space for the equipment required to make these prints.
I do not think that we will be offering this service on a single purchase item but rather intice artist to come to Canada and work with us producing shows in the various wet processes of the past with current state of the art equipment, and expertise from various sources.

Sorry if this post took so long and if it looks like a major plug for us, but this is my idea of how fim and digital can mix and I want to follow this path to make some very nice shows in the future.

I am very confident I can make excellent quality alternative negatives, but there are some complexities to overcome but within time I feel that I will be able to produce a colour show here at our Gallery that will be worth the wait and all the learning curve.