How Do You "Handle" Paper in Open Tray?

[RedSun]

I printed some BW paper, but found scratches on some of them. I used plastic tongs and bamboo tongs with rubber tips. I think this is going to happen again.

So how do you guys handle the paper in the tray? Any scratches? In the future, I can consider holding paper with my fingers. Or I can process the paper in my Jobo drums.

How do you guys do?

 

[Dr Croubie]

Before you blame the trays or tongs, just confirm that you're not scratching them before or after, ie when you place it in the enlarger easel, or when you're hanging them up to dry. Also make sure that there's nothing scratching them even in the bag, try one from the middle of the stack and/or from a completely different box.
Also, be sure that there are no bamboo splinters coming through, or that there are holes in the rubber tips.
I develop face-up in the tray, so there's nothing to scratch the image except the tongs. I even swish the developer around over the top of the image to make sure it develops evenly, never scratched them that way.

I've also just tried my first paper in a Jobo, and was very pleased by the results (just make sure the tank is (there was a url link here which no longer exists) before you load the paper). You do miss out on the cool 'watch the image appear' bit though.
I'll keep using the jobo tanks for pinhole negs when I'm on the road with no darkroom, but having to dry it each time will be annoying so I'll probably keep on with trays for enlarging when I'm doing multiple at once.

 

[Chris Lange]

I use disposable rubber gloves for any printing above 8x10"

I've found that my prints dry with less curling and more even surface finish with as little handling as possible.

Tong-poking is completely verboten.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I just use my bare hands. Just rinse your hands well between prints. There is nothing in fixer that will harm them. Acid fixer has long been used to treat a skin condition called tinea versicolor. To remove the fixer smell from your hands after a print session just pour a little 3% hydrogen peroxide on them and rub your hands together. The smell disappears.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

For most prints, especially when I'm working up to a fine print and developing one-at-a-time, I use 30+ year old bamboo tongs with rubber tips. I've replaced the tips a time or two, but am still using my very first set of tongs... it's kind of a nostalgia thing.

I submerge the print by sliding it into the developer face-up, then proceed to gently push down the floating parts of the print with the tong tips, which I continue to do throughout the developing time. This is the agitation (sorry, Chris, I'm an inveterate "tong-poker") along with an occasional flip face-down and then face-up again. Gently is the key word here, but I've never had tong-caused defects. I pick up the prints with the tongs by a corner (I always have generous borders on the prints) when transferring to the stop (slap, face-down in the stop bath) and fix. For larger prints I often use two sets of tongs; works fine up to 16x20.

However, I don't hesitate to use my bare hands when I need to. 20x24 prints or prints in batches that need to be shuffled or when one sticks to the bottom of a tray and I can't get the tongs under it to lift it all require hands; sometimes I just feel like using my hands. The main reason I don't use my hands a lot is simple convenience; I don't have to wash them so much, and I do reduce my exposure to any developing agents that I might end up developing an allergy to (Metol). I don't use toxic developers like Amidol or even a lot of Metol, mostly PQ developers, sometimes some Glycin. I wouldn't hesitate to use nitrile gloves when printing if I were worried; I use them when negative developing since I use Pyro film developers.

When I do get print damage, it is usually caused by other things, not handling in during processing.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Ian Grant]

I use various print tongs or my fingers, as I print with wide borders handling is less likely to be a problem but I've never had scratches on papers except a couple of times with Foma papers which have a softer emulsion,, So I'm now more careful when using Foma papers.

Ian

 

[paul_c5x4]

I use disposable rubber gloves for any printing above 8x10"

Same here. A box of vinyl gloves lasts a while. I slip on a fresh one each time I take a sheet of paper out of the box. It stays on as the paper progresses through each bath and then gets peeled off once the print is in the wash tank. Cuts the risk of fingerprints and contamination almost to zero.

The only time I recall having scratches on a finished print was from using a squeegee to remove water from the front. The squeegee has now been consigned to the bin and prints are always hung out to dry or put through a print dryer.

 

[pdeeh]

just pour a little 3% hydrogen peroxide on them and rub your hands together. The smell disappears.

Good Lord Gerald! ... for a man who often advises caution with chemicals that seems surprisingly cavalier!

When I get peroxide on my hands (even at 3%) I often end up with the pads of my fingers turning white and all my little nicks and scratches stinging like hell ...

 

[Neal]

Dear RedSun,

I have had exactly the problem you've described. Essentially, all that was needed to solve the problem was care. My favorite tongs are the Dead Link Removed, but I came into possession of a bunch of stainless steel ones and they work very well. If you do decide to forego tongs, exam gloves are a good idea. Further, I find they are easier to dry than skin so handling the next sheet is easier.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

 

[fotch]

bamboo tongs

 

[analoguey]

Peroxide is bleach isnt it? Hows that good for the skin?!


I use disposable rubber gloves from the pharmacy, whether printing, tray developing or even developing in a tank. For tray developing/printing I find that only one gloved hand is more useful - more so as my "darkroom" is currently the bathroom - and that leaves a dry/ungloved hand to move objects out of the way or to operate switches.

 

[winger]

I've used tongs for 15 years and never had scratches. I only handle the prints in the corners and as little as possible. For something to scratch, there's possibly dirt somewhere getting rubbed. I did have scratches on the back of my prints when I squeegeed them when our water softener wasn't extracting the rust enough. I only squeegee the back of my prints - never on the front.

 

[wildbill]

I've had new trays scratch prints.
I use nitrile gloves and just dunk my gloved hands in water then wipe them dry after each print. One pair lasts a long time. throwing them away after each print is pretty silly.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Good Lord Gerald! ... for a man who often advises caution with chemicals that seems surprisingly cavalier!

When I get peroxide on my hands (even at 3%) I often end up with the pads of my fingers turning white and all my little nicks and scratches stinging like hell ...

There are some chemicals that are dangerous and some that are safe. Of course this depends on knowing which are which. Being a chemist helps. The ingredients in fixer are safe. As I said an old doctor approved off label treatment for certain skin conditions is Kodak F-5 fixer. One could have the ingredients mixed up by a pharmacy or just go down to the photo store.

Hydrogen peroxide 3% is an antiseptic and can be used externally and also as a mouth rinse. It was probably good for the nicks and scratchs. It will bleach the outer dead layer of the skin.

I usually use tongs for the developer but once the prints reach the stop bath I use my hands the rest of the way. Been doing this for over 60 years.

 

[RedSun]

I'm sure the scratches are from the tongs. I'll try other tongs. Also, need to handle the papers on the edge or corners. Also, for big and final prints, I plan to use Jobo tanks.

 

[Ian C]

Safe, non-maring print-handling tongs

These are the best tongs I’ve found. I still have my first set I got with a used darkroom in 1986. They must date from the mid 1970s. The red rubber tips are quite soft and grip the print well without damage. It’s important to grasp the handle midway or closer to the rubber tips to easily get secure clamping force on the print.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/762107-REG/Dot_Line_DL_0442_Print_Tongs_2_Pack.html

 

[Vaughn]

Photo paper, when first introduced into the developer, becomes pressure-sensitive for awhile...pressure on the emulsion can cause it to act as if it was exposed to light. If one gets black scratches, they are usually caused by the pressure of the tongs 'exposing' the paper. This might vary with paper types/brands. Portriga Rapid did this quite easily -- my fingerprints would show in the corners (white border - dark fingerprints) when I would tightly grip the 16x20 sheets as I flipped the sheets over in the developer. it also seemed to happen easier using Agfa Neutral (?) Developer than with Dektol.

I generally just use tongs for test strips and test prints.

Developers using metol can cause an allergic reaction on one's hands, depending on one's sensitivity (which can increase over the years of printing) -- dry, cracking hands.

 

[Vaughn]

...Hydrogen peroxide 3% is an antiseptic and can be used externally and also as a mouth rinse. It was probably good for the nicks and scratchs. It will bleach the outer dead layer of the skin.

Hydrogen peroixde is not recommended as an antiseptic for wounds. Yes it does kill germs, but it also kills the healthy skin cells around the wound and can result in a slower healing rate. But I do love the way it fizzes in wounds -- really makes one feels it is doing something!

My dentist said it is okay to use Hydrogen peroxide as a mouth wash and for infections in the mouth, but one should dilute it and not straight from the bottle.

 

[Dr Croubie]

It's also good for putting those blonde streaks in your hair for summer...

 

[cliveh]

My experience with print tongs is not good, as over the years I have found they are all crap. They either break or the rubber ends come off, if only Leitz had applied themselves to the task. So now I use barbeque tongs (those designed for turning sausages), or my fingers.

 

[RedSun]

For any large print, it is not practical to use tongs. The paper is heavy and you can imagine how much force it is at the tip of the tongs?

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

You might want to check the temperature of you chemicals. If it's too warm, the emulsion will get softer and more susceptible to scratches. When I use print tongs, I insert the tong under the print, then squeeze it and gently lift it out of the tray. Your chemicals has to be deep enough. About and 1 1/2" or deeper.

 

[ROL]

Portriga Rapid did this quite easily -- my fingerprints would show in the corners (white border - dark fingerprints) when I would tightly grip the 16x20 sheets as I flipped the sheets over in the developer.

Better than a signature!

 

[MattKing]

I've been using these silicon kitchen tongs recently: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Nylon-7-Food-Tongs-Green-/181338817140

 

[ROL]

I use reverse pressure stainless steel tongs for prints up to 20"x24". They grip by even spring pressure, not gorilla hand. Larger than that, the spring pressure is inadequate and the paper too 'lively', I must use my hands. Hands must be kept clean, by washing between stations or you will get fingerprints. In any case, either by tong or fingers free or gloved, only handle prints by corners and preferably by an unexposed margin to be trimmed prior to mounting. Poking the surface of prints to agitate is not a good idea. With the exception of prints larger than 20"x24", I insert face up for about one minute to expose them quickly and completely to developer and allow them to 'relax', shuffling them as necessary to prevent them from sticking to each other, then flip them face down for the remainder of time and on through to the fixer. This, along with sloshing by picking up the corners of trays, will provide very thorough and safe agitation with little likelihood of injuring the emulsion. Larger prints, by virtue of their size and weight (when saturated) and because of excessive curl from rolls, are processed one at a time entirely face up and sloshed. Just say 'no' to poking, 'yes' to sloshing.