How do you give B&W film an archival wash?

[chip j]

I shoot 35mm.

 

[guangong]

If shooting any size from subminiature to 120, I fill and empty developing tank 10-20 times, followed by a dunk in Photoflo. I have negative I developed 60+ years ago with no sign of deterioration, not to speak of family negatives from early 1900s that look very good. Washing is more crucial with prints because chemicals are easily retained in paper’s fibers.

 

[Alan9940]

Look up the Ilford film washing method. I've used this method for years and it seems fine.

 

[pentaxuser]

Look up the Ilford film washing method. I've used this method for years and it seems fine.

True, if I'd known about the Ilford method say 60 years ago my face would have remained as good as it was 60 years ago and I don't want anyone spoiling my day by explaining why this is a forlorn hope

OK, I accept that the strong acetic acid stop bath was a mistake and may have wrinkled the skin beyond repair

pentaxuser

 

[removed account4]

after you fix your film you film and dump your film canister with 68ºF water 5-10 times then you use a fixer remover ( i use either sprint of perma wash ) and then fill and dump my negative canister 20 times with 68º or colder water, never had a problem. after the last fill and dump put a couple of drops of photo phlow move your reel up and down in the canister, wrap the can with something solid ( i use a wooden spoon ) to get the bubbles off the film, then barely flow water into the can to make the bubbles evacuate, pull the film out and hang it, when its dry cut it and sleeve it and there you go.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Twelve 30 second rinse when using the Jobo processor [virtually all the time] followed by a dunk in PhotoFlo with the film off the reels. This uses 6 liters of water.

Recommendations for KHCA? After which rinse and for how long?

 

[MattKing]

I use the Kodak recommended procedure.
Rinse for 30 seconds under running water.
Then immerse in Hypo Clearing Agent for 1 to 2 minutes, agitating continuously for the first 30 seconds and at 30-second intervals after that.
Then wash, either:
a) for 5 minutes, running the wash water at least fast enough to provide a complete change of water in the container in that 5 minutes; or
b) for rapid washing in a small tank, fill the tank to overflowing with fresh water and then dump it all out. Repeat this cycle 10 times.
Note that for option a), the flow rate can be quite slow.

 

[Anon Ymous]

You can use several washing methods and get nice and clean negatives. Depending on what fixer you use, which you haven't mentioned, the washing method needed can change considerably. I mean the minimum time and/or water volume. Rapid fixers tend to wash faster, especially neutral to alkaline ones. Standard, sodium thiosulfate fixers, especially hardening ones will take longer to wash properly.

Whatever you use, it is good to invest in some HT2 solution, or the ingredients needed to make some. This is a residual hypo test and will tell you how well you wash your films, something infinitely better than expecting a definitive answer from other people, including me of course.

FWIW, I use a rapid, non hardening, almost neutral pH fixer and my films are clean after filling my tank five times, inverting 30 times and let it stand 2' in each water change. YMMV...

EDIT: I usually do more than 5 water changes, just to make me feel better...

 

[mshchem]

I use the Kodak recommended procedure.
Rinse for 30 seconds under running water.
Then immerse in Hypo Clearing Agent for 1 to 2 minutes, agitating continuously for the first 30 seconds and at 30-second intervals after that.
Then wash, either:
a) for 5 minutes, running the wash water at least fast enough to provide a complete change of water in the container in that 5 minutes; or
b) for rapid washing in a small tank, fill the tank to overflowing with fresh water and then dump it all out. Repeat this cycle 10 times.
Note that for option a), the flow rate can be quite slow.

Definitely +1, this is unchanged recommendation from Kodak for last 50 years. The KHCA gets the purple out of T grain films too.

 

[Vaughn]

After rinsing the fix off the surface of the film, the rest of the wash is done by diffusion -- the migrating of chemicals to areas of lesser dilution. Washing aids help speed up the migration.

I tend to do several good rinses to get the surface fixer off, then many baths in standing water (with various amounts of aggitation to get fresher water touching the film surfaces) of varying times (at least 10 minutes usually, but longer if I forget, often). The 120 film on their reels in their SS tanks, sheet film (4x5 to 11x14) are washed one sheet per tray.

 

[Paul Howell]

Very close to Kodak, 60 seconds in running water, (I use an archival film washer for both roll and sheet film) 2 minutes with agitation in Perma Wash, then a 5 minute wash. My water is very hard, I then give a 1 minute soak in distilled followed, followed by photo flow in distilled water.

 

[JensH]

Look up the Ilford film washing method. I've used this method for years and it seems fine.

Hi,

yes, me too. Followed by 3 minutes in dest. water with PhotoFlo 200.
In the 90s german magazine Foto&Labor proofed the Ilford method being effective...

Best
Jens

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I shoot 35mm.

I wash under running water at 20C for 10 min.

 

[takilmaboxer]

With T grain film (TM100) I remove the film from the fix, rinse once, then soak the film in water for 5 minutes with occasional agitation.This is to remove the purple color from the film, and generally three such soaks removes all the color. Then 5 minutes in running water, and 30 seconds in distilled water with photoflo. TM100 has a beautifully clear base, and I'm picky about residual color!

 

[guangong]

Typing on my iPad, I forgot to mention that I use Permawash, then rinse, then Photoflo.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Read the sticky thread here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/film-washing-test.69416/

There's more than one way to get clean negatives. Err on the side of more washing rather than less.

Hypo Clearing Agent or other wash aids will remove the stain from negatives developed in staining developers (e.g., pyro, PMK, Pyrocat). Use a longer wash instead.

Read up on the Kodak and Ilford methods. Don't rely on hearsay or other people's untested methods.

Do your own testing for residual hypo and silver to check your workflow. Don't overuse your fixer.

Best,

Doremus

 

[tedr1]

Ilford and Kodak instructions can be relied upon.
The original question seems to miss an important point about "archival washing". This was introduced because of the difficulty of getting fixer out of the paper base of enlarging paper, especially partially exhausted fixer. Unlike enlarging paper the base for films is non-absorbent thus "archival washing" to remove fixer from the base is not required, washing must remove fixer from the film, and this is relatively easy, the emulsion layer is very thin.

 

[abruzzi]

Curious why 20C/68F water for the rinse? Is it just to avoid reticulation, or does the temp help in other ways?

I ask because right now, the only way to get water that cold is with bottles stored in the refrigerator, and there isn’t usually enough in there to do a running wash. My cold water comes out at about 88-90F in the summer (I suspect the town didn’t bury their water pipes low enough.)

 

[MattKing]

It is important to wash at a temperature that is fairly close to the temperature that you used to develop and fix the film. That avoids reticulation.
Cold water washing isn't as efficient as 20C washing.
I'd be concerned about washing at 90F. I am sure it would be efficient, but I don't know if ending up at that temperature (after a gradual increase) would be harmful.

 

[abruzzi]

Fortunately I’ve never encountered reticulation with my “cold” water, but I may try to keep a gallon of water in the refrigerator and use it to slowly bring the rinse water from the 68F I develop at to 85-90F by the end of 5 minutes. Or I could only develop color in the summer.

 

[MattKing]

Remember, the running water only need run so fast as to effect one complete change of water at least every five minutes. In most cases, that is barely more than a trickle.
If I'm trying to conserve water, and am using a 1 litre tank, I figure I only need 2-3 litres in total - probably less.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

I shoot 35mm.

There are lots of ways of doing it, and how long you have to wash will depend on what fixer you used.

I use an archival film washer and wash for 15 minutes. The flow rate to the film washer is approximately 1 liter per minute.

 

[reddesert]

Long ago, as a student, I made a "film washer" by punching a couple of small holes in the bottom of a plastic seltzer bottle and cutting off the conical top. I used Perma Wash or Kodak hypo clear per manufacturer's directions, then I put the film, still on reels (I used steel reels), into the seltzer bottle and put it under the sink tap with a slow flow of water, so that water flowed down past the film and drained out the bottom. I let this run for about 15 minutes, which will change the water a number of times without using a ridiculous amount of water. My negatives look okay 25 years later.

 

[Cholentpot]

Put hose from faucet into tank, leave water running for 15-20 min.

 

[M Carter]

For me - (most of my negs take a lot of work, studio or travel shots) -
2-bath fixing; if the 2nd bath doesn't clear the leader in 45 seconds or so, it becomes bath 1;
After fixing, I rinse the reel & film under running water and rinse the tank out - rinse the fix off of everything;
Wash with one tank of water and agitation;
Home made HCA for a few minutes;
If I'm just doing one roll, I do a trickle wash through the center post and let the water displace the HCA and wash for ten minutes - if several in one session, I bottle up the HCA and wash for 10-12 minutes running;
Photoflo and filtered water.
Test with RHT.
In Texas, my running water can be kind of lukewarm - never had a reticulation issue, I think modern films are pretty robust.