How do you dissolve benzotriazole???

User Removed · Sep 11, 2005

I purchased some benzotriazole from Photographers Formulary, and the dirrections on the pack said to add content of package to distilled water. Well, I did....ABOUT 3 weeks ago, and it still has not dissolved!!!! I have tried heating it and that did not work.

Can someone PLEASE give me clear instructions on how to make benzotriazole dissolve?!

By the way, I am using it to replace KBR in my Amidol developer, in order to get a cooler tone print.

Thanks,

RYAN MCINTOSH

eumenius · Sep 11, 2005

Hm, how very strange - usually I just put the benzotriazole in required quantity to my developer. and it just dissolves! Maybe it requires some salt in solution to dissolve better? I don't think you need to make a stock solution in water, just try and put it along with other components of your developer.

Not all papers respond well to benzotriazole - sometimes it's impossible to get a cooler tone with it... but why do you need Amidol (warm-tone) developer for cooler tone? Maybe it's better to make some phenidone-HQ one instead?

Cheers,
Zhenya

john_s · Sep 11, 2005

It dissolves better in mild alkali. Sodium sulphite is alkaline enough, and a bit won't disturb (most) developers. I suppose you could use a trace of carbonate instead if you wanted to avoid sulphite.

Benzotriazole is used in industrial purposes and some info can be found here:

http://www.chemrite.co.uk/benzoltr.html

Tom Hoskinson · Sep 11, 2005

Hot water (125 - 150 degrees F) works and doesn't appear to harm the benzotriazole.

I make up a concentrated stock solution and add a bit to my print developer if I want cooler tones. A little benzotriazole goes a long way!

BTW, I've never used it with Amidol.

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 11, 2005

If you mix a 1% solution, you should be okay. More than 2% and you'll need to dissolve it in something other than water. Alcohol is an option that I've seen, but haven't tried it myself. 1% works for me.

Tom Hoskinson · Sep 11, 2005

David A. Goldfarb said:
If you mix a 1% solution, you should be okay. More than 2% and you'll need to dissolve it in something other than water. Alcohol is an option that I've seen, but haven't tried it myself. 1% works for me.

Yes Dave, a 1% stock solution is what I mix - no problems.

sanking · Sep 11, 2005

Tom Hoskinson said:
Yes Dave, a 1% stock solution is what I mix - no problems.

Same here. I make a 1% stock solution and have never had any problem with it dissolving.

Sandy

Ryuji · Sep 11, 2005

Jdef: I've never seen BZT used for benzotriazole. More standard abbreviation for benzotriazole is BTA (benzo tri azole).

John is right about the pH dependency. Most organic antifoggants of heterocyclic (imidazole, oxazole, tetrazole, etc.) compounds exhibit similar trends because they are weak acids (they dissolve more when they are deprotonated). The deprotonated specie is the active agent.

Although the effect is visible in b&w prints, benzotriazole's cooling effect is not particularly strong. Agents like 1-phenyl-5-mercaptotetrazole (PMT) are stronger, but these agents generally retard development more than BTA does (PMT is used in emulsions, sometimes in a substituted form, and in some developers in 1-20mg/L range. This agent usually doesn't appear in MSDS because concentration is very low.). Also, there are other heterocyclic thiol compounds that can cool image tone and ACCELERATE development. Those would be a better choice for print developers. They are also used in rather small quantities and may not appear in MSDS.

User Removed · Sep 11, 2005

Thank for all the replies so far!

I have been using KBr is Michael Smiths AZO Amidol developer, and with AZO...it gives me too warm/green tone. It was suggested that I add BZT to replace the KBr as a 1% solution. This would get rid of the warm/green tone, and give a much cooler blue tone print with AZO.

I mixed it as a 1% solution in distilled water a few weeks ago, and it has yet to dissolve. Rather, it is a large hairy clump that floats in the water.

I have been sugested to dissolve it in alcohol, but I am not sure how to do that. I will also try heating it up more, but I doubt it will do anything. I will also try the sodium sulfite suggestion since you use a large ammount of SS in amidol developer anyways, it should be okay.

Thanks. Any other comments?

Ryuji · Sep 11, 2005

If I were you I would use heat and agitation. If this doesn't help, I would add NaOH or sodium carbonate solution, dropwise, with good agitation, until the chemical dissolves. I would not use sulfite for this purpose.

If you were to do this again, you could use a suitable, water-miscible solvent, such as 2-propanol (isopropanol), acetone, ethyl acetate, etc. Dissolve 1.0 g of benzotriazole in say 30 ml of any of these solvents. When the chemical is dissolved, add water to make 100 ml.

srs5694 · Sep 11, 2005

Ryuji said:
Jdef: I've never seen BZT used for benzotriazole. More standard abbreviation for benzotriazole is BTA (benzo tri azole).

Try a Web search on "BZT benzotriazole". You'll get lots of hits, and even just looking over the summaries, it's obvious that many of them are using "BZT" as an abbreviation for "benzotriazole." Of course, that doesn't mean it's common among the chemically literate, just on the Web.

hortense · Sep 11, 2005

You might want to try this link http://www.winghingchemical.com/whccl/jsp/pdc/crmdetail.jsp?id=439&lang=b5

Rlibersky · Sep 12, 2005

Was the BZT in a clump. I have found that crushing before or after putting in water helps. 1% solution

User Removed · Sep 12, 2005

hortense said:
You might want to try this link http://www.winghingchemical.com/whccl/jsp/pdc/crmdetail.jsp?id=439&lang=b5

Sorry, but I cannot read chinese, and everything IS in Chinese. haha.

Gerald Koch · Sep 12, 2005

The following is said to be the formula for Ilford IBT restrainer. It is not intended for low alkalinity developers because of the sodium carbonate.

Distilled water (50°C) ................. 750 ml
Benzotriazole .......................... 10.0 g
Sodium carbonate (mono) ................ 11.7 g
Distilled water to make ................ 1.0 l

According to the MSDS Edwal Liquid Orthazite is a 2.7% solution containing <5% sodium sulfite.

fhovie · Sep 12, 2005

I mixed mine in alchohol - I dissolved fine - I add a dropper full to my paper developer - I don't use it in any film developers

Peter Schrager · Sep 12, 2005

Benzo

fhovie said:
I mixed mine in alchohol - I dissolved fine - I add a dropper full to my paper developer - I don't use it in any film developers

Ditto what Fhovie says. You are NEVER going to dissolve it in just water (2%);or keep it in suspension.
I just dissolve it in 200ml iso-propyl alcohol than put the remaining amount of water to it. I have 2 quarts that I made up almost a year ago and they are both fine.
Peter

Ray Rogers · Sep 13, 2005

Ryuji said:
Jdef: I've never seen BZT used for benzotriazole. More standard abbreviation for benzotriazole is BTA (benzo tri azole).

I have seen BZT.

Also BT (benzo triazole).

Kodak called it AF-70 as well as Anti-Fog #1 (avail. in 30 mg. tablets).

Ray

mikewhi · Sep 14, 2005

I have a liter of benzatriazole in liquid form from Zone VI chemicals. It is about 10 years old. Do you think it is still good?

(I wonder if Calumet still sells it.)

Thanks.

-Mike

Peter Schrager · Sep 14, 2005

BZT

Mike-the Benzo is still good; and NO -Calumet dropped it from the list of ZoneVI
chemicals a while back
Best, Peter

Maine-iac · Sep 17, 2005

I buy Edwal's Liquid Orthazite and use 10ml of that per half gallon of paper developer.

Larry

reggie · Oct 31, 2005

Peter Schrager said:
Ditto what Fhovie says. You are NEVER going to dissolve it in just water (2%);or keep it in suspension.
I just dissolve it in 200ml iso-propyl alcohol than put the remaining amount of water to it. I have 2 quarts that I made up almost a year ago and they are both fine.
Peter

I bought some 90% isopropyl alcohol and I was able to get the benzatriazole to easily dissolve in it. When I add this benzatriazole\alcohol\water mixture to film\paper developer, will the alcohol have any adverse effect on the other chemicals in the devlopers?

Thanks.

-R

reggie · Dec 7, 2006

I added some benzotriazole to hot tap water and it would not all dissolve. I then used Everclear and it worked like a champ. I then putred that into the hot water mixture and the undisolved clumpb disolved very quickly. I am leaving the beaker out in the open air to see if the alchohol will evaporate and leave only the water behind. If so, I wonder if the chemical will come out of solution?

-R

noseoil · Dec 8, 2006

Ryan, how did you mix your 1% solution? Distilled water? How was the water measured, how was the BZT measured? Mine worked out ok, but I had to use a glass rod for stirring. Took a couple of minutes, but was fine. tim

Gerald Koch · Dec 8, 2006

reggie said:
I added some benzotriazole to hot tap water and it would not all dissolve. I then used Everclear and it worked like a champ. I then putred that into the hot water mixture and the undisolved clumpb disolved very quickly. I am leaving the beaker out in the open air to see if the alchohol will evaporate and leave only the water behind. If so, I wonder if the chemical will come out of solution?

-R

You don't say what percentage solution you were trying to make. The solubility of benzotrizole is such that it is easy to make a 1% solution. I have done it many times. But, you need to use hot water ~150 F. and some stirring. Breaking up any clumps with a stirring rod will also speed things up.

Adjust the volume of the alcohol/water solution that you have and bottle it up. The alcohol will not hurt things.

How do you dissolve benzotriazole???

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