How do I time film development when using trays?

23mjm · Jan 31, 2008

Greetings

I am moving up to a 4X5 and need help. I need to develope my negs, I have decided on tray development for now. But my big question is how do you time the development and fixing. It needs to be done in total darkness, so can't read the timer. I need a little help here---so what do you-all do, any ideas or silver bullets that will help me learn this process. I was going to start with one sheet then move up in numbers as I get more comfortable.

Thank you :confused:

M Magee

Ray Heath · Jan 31, 2008

g'day M

i use a cheap timer that 'speaks' every minute to tell me how many minutes are left

Ray

PBrooks · Jan 31, 2008

Hello M, I use a enlarger timer and turn the display light off and the tone on. It beeps every second. You could use a metranom(I know I mispelled that) and just count the beeps, but the enlarger timer stops beeping when time is up.
Hope this helps
PBrooks

Ross Chambers · Jan 31, 2008

You will likely find a supplier of aids for the vision impaired, and they will have a count up/count down/clock timer. Mine is a "Voice Zone" Talking Timer. It announces time to elapse from about 10 minutes to go, and more often as you near the entered and saved time, which is reassuring if you, like me, panic if you're unsure if you activated the countdown by pressing the correct button.

For agitation I use a wall clock with sweep second hand, made by Nova darkroom supplies UK. It's necessary to "load up" the luminosity of this in strong light before starting, though. I placed a small luminous tag on my Talking Timer too, it has 6 small buttons and it's good to hit the right one!

One could construct a more entertaining music file with strict metre, but I'd rather spend that time in the darkroom!

Regards - Ross

nick mulder · Jan 31, 2008

I use my cellphone timer function and put it in a cupboard to stop errant calls or text from lighting up proceedings, the vibrate grabs my attention easily enough.

For fixing I just wait an average song length on my ipod in which I have a special playlist of songs around 3.5 minutes in duration - this also helps in developing - in each dev I should hear around 4~5 tracks ...

Works for me

eric · Jan 31, 2008

I use a large Gralab 300 about 4 feet away.

Ole · Jan 31, 2008

I use a CD player, and time development by selecting tracks with appropriate length. Eric Satie's "Gymnopedies" work well for FP4+ in Pyrocat-HD.

fschifano · Jan 31, 2008

eric said:
I use a large Gralab 300 about 4 feet away.

Same here. At first I was concerned that the luminous face of the timer would cause a problem. From that distance, it does not.

Ray Heath · Jan 31, 2008

Ole said:
I use a CD player, and time development by selecting tracks with appropriate length. Eric Satie's "Gymnopedies" work well for FP4+ in Pyrocat-HD.

surely you jest

jim appleyard · Jan 31, 2008

If you have friends that are willing to help, they could stand outside your darkroom and count the time for you.

Ole · Jan 31, 2008

Ray Heath said:
surely you jest

Not at all! Start CD player, turn off the lights, film is ready to go in at the end of the first Gymnopedie. Start sheet one at the first beat of no. 2, then put in one every six bars. At the end of Gymnopedie no.3, start taking the films out in the same tempo and order.

argus · Jan 31, 2008

23mjm said:
Greetings

I am moving up to a 4X5 and need help. I need to develope my negs, I have decided on tray development for now. But my big question is how do you time the development and fixing. It needs to be done in total darkness, so can't read the timer. I need a little help here---so what do you-all do, any ideas or silver bullets that will help me learn this process. I was going to start with one sheet then move up in numbers as I get more comfortable.

Thank you :confused:

M Magee

Fixing can be done with the lights on, low light if you preffer.

G

jeroldharter · Jan 31, 2008

To manage some of these issues, I use BTZS tubes and a slosher instead of trays.

In regard to using timers with the lights out, it is easy to get distracted and forget how long you are into the process. So the ideas of a talking timer or a timer set to music make good sense. I know some people record a tape or CD with voice prompts every so often and play that during processing. BTW, once the film is in the fixer for a short time, you can turn on the room lights safely.

argus · Jan 31, 2008

Ole said:
Not at all! Start CD player, turn off the lights, film is ready to go in at the end of the first Gymnopedie. Start sheet one at the first beat of no. 2, then put in one every six bars. At the end of Gymnopedie no.3, start taking the films out in the same tempo and order.

Ole,

performed by whom?

G

Ole · Jan 31, 2008

Can't remember - the CD cover is somewhere in the darkroom, and it's dark in there!

But Satie's piano pieces are generally short, so performer differences are minimal. Less than photographer differences...

BTW, I mistyped over: It takes three full Gymnopedies to develop FP4+ in Pyrocat-HD at 1+1+100 - but that would of course depend on your target contrast. So for me that's two Gymnopedies and one Gnossienne.

Jerevan · Jan 31, 2008

I think Satie would be proud.

analogfotog · Jan 31, 2008

I use a Gralab timer on a shelf, about three feet from my trays. It's 36 years old, so after a few minutes in the dark the "luminous" dial can be hard to read. I haven't had any fogging problems with this setup.

When I first started developing sheet film in trays, in 1974, I hung the timer on the wall about four feet behind me, and plugged a radio into the socket marked "enlarger." If the developing time was, say, six minutes, I would set that time and switch the timer on. The radio would start, and I would count to fifteen seconds, and then actually immerse my film in the developer. When the radio cut out, I knew I had to start that fifteen second count again, before terminating the development. You can time the stop bath and fixer without the timer, as they are not so critical. After the film is half fixed, it's safe to switch the lights on.

A friend of mine used to use the same method, but he would stand to develop his film, whereas I would sit. He used to claim that fast paced music, such as "Saturday Night Fever" by the BeeGees would cause him to overdevelop his film! Remember, this was the 1970's...

One day at school, when we (the students) heard his radio blaring, and we knew he was developing film, we heard a loud THUMP! As it turned out, my friend had danced himself into the wall, in total darkness!

Tom Hoskinson · Jan 31, 2008

23mjm said:
Greetings

I am moving up to a 4X5 and need help. I need to develope my negs, I have decided on tray development for now. But my big question is how do you time the development and fixing. It needs to be done in total darkness, so can't read the timer. I need a little help here---so what do you-all do, any ideas or silver bullets that will help me learn this process. I was going to start with one sheet then move up in numbers as I get more comfortable.

Thank you :confused:

M Magee

I use a battery powered count-down timer that counts down the remainig time using a simulated human voice.

There are a lot of folkswho use electronic metronomes for timing exposures, development and fixing.

juan · Jan 31, 2008

Ole said:
Not at all! Start CD player, turn off the lights, film is ready to go in at the end of the first Gymnopedie. Start sheet one at the first beat of no. 2, then put in one every six bars. At the end of Gymnopedie no.3, start taking the films out in the same tempo and order.

This is the best answer I've ever heard.

But after trying all kinds of newfangled methods of timing, I finally bought a used Gralab four years ago, and I have not looked back. The luminous dial assures you that the timer has actually started, and it is not so luminous that it fogs film if you have it several feet away.
juan

removed account4 · Jan 31, 2008

i also use a beat up gralab timer that i barely can see the numbers.
it has an "alarm" that will blast if you can't hear the faint "click" or see when the time ends.
after the film goes into the fix for a few seconds
you can turn the lights on ( or safe light if you are nervous ).

tray processing is so much fun !
good luck,
john

rwyoung · Jan 31, 2008

Probably read this in The Negative or similar book but make a tape recording (burn a CD) of music like Ole or just record yourself and a ticking clock counting out the time. Call out the time in 5 or 10 second intervals, etc.

Boring as hell to make and listen too if it is just you I imagine. Maybe a little background music, ala Ole, would help.

That said, I tried the tape recording once and then just went back to a small ticking clock and counting down the time to myself. Then bought a Jobo processor...

Weren't Godowsky and Mannes musicians and reportedly timed the development experiments for Kodachrome by playing some tunes on the piano and violin?

c6h6o3 · Jan 31, 2008

I use my Avier Torino watch, which has extremely luminous hands (including the second hand) and numbers. Since I gently agitate the film for exactly 10 seconds every 30 seconds of development time after the first minute I need to monitor the time constantly. Simply setting a timer won't do.

Monophoto · Jan 31, 2008

I use a Gralab 300. I've added a few small pieces of phosphorescent tape to create additional dots and bars representing N, N-1, N+1 timing. My experience is that the faint light given off by the markings on the face of the timer aren't enough to fog film that is about 3 feet away.

Another solution is to create a recorded time track using either a tape recorder or one of those modern digital flash drive recorders. Make the recording with the lights on with sounds (a bell, a sexy voice similar to a GPS - whatever floats your boat) at your preferred agitation times and at the conclusion of each step of the process.

A third suggestion is to find an application to run on an electronic personal organizer (ie, Palm, etc). I have something called Photo Timer that can be used to time development.

But simpler is better, and the Gralab solution works for me.

23mjm · Jan 31, 2008

Thank you all for your responses. I am going the tray route for now because of cost---dumped lots of cash on the camera+lenses+stuff. My enlarger time only goes to 60 seconds, so its out. Guess I will look for a beeping/talking timer. Could go the metronome route those are cheap. Might have to also figure out something with the Zune (sorry no ipod). I know I am going to screw some stuff up at first. Thats why I got some cheap Arista film and am going to shoot a bunch of "still life stuff round the house"

Thanks

Magee

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 31, 2008

I know it sounds incredibly tedious and boring, but I use a metronome. I bought it at Guitar Center for twenty bucks, and I count seconds. It takes some getting used to, but after you do get used to it, it's easy to listen to music simultaneously, and it works great for printing too. You get your burning/dodging right on the money every time.
- Thomas

How do I time film development when using trays?

23mjm

Ray Heath

PBrooks

Ross Chambers

nick mulder

eric

Ole

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fschifano

Ray Heath

jim appleyard

Ole

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argus

jeroldharter

argus

Ole

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Jerevan

analogfotog

Tom Hoskinson

juan

removed account4

rwyoung

c6h6o3

Monophoto

23mjm

Thomas Bertilsson

How do I time film development when using trays?

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