How do I make badly processed prints??

tkamiya · Jan 4, 2015

This is probably the weirdest thing asked on this forum....

I am trying to make badly processed prints on purpose. I want stains, uneven processing, fogging, etc, etc, etc, but here's a catch. I want to control them and make sure they don't get any worse than exactly the amount of "badness" I want.

For example, insufficient fixing will cause stains and browning/yellowing of prints. I want it but I want it to stop at a certain point. I've done turning lights on during development stage and do the rest, I've done insufficient fixing and selenium toning after to cause bad stains. Sprinkled bleach (ferri) and fix, etc, etc, etc. Incompletely fixed prints just kept getting worse with time.

Has anyone done these for effects? I have a certain image that will benefit from this kind of image manipulation.

bvy · Jan 4, 2015

If you want the images to be archival (or at least stable for a long time) I wouldn't mess with the fixer step very much. But maybe there's a way...

You can get a range of effects by manipulating development. I did some things recently with two bath development, flashing the paper with the room lights between the two baths. This achieved a duotone effect (there's a word for this). You can also try using exhausted developer or developer at different dilutions, and letting it puddle on or run down the paper.

Another idea: Apply some petroleum jelly or aloe vera gel to a transparency and lay it over the paper during exposure. You can achieve a number of effects this way -- with this approach, you not only have good control but the results are repeatable. Messing with the chemicals, you'll be relying more on luck than anything.

Just some thoughts...

Sirius Glass · Jan 4, 2015

Keep on doing what you are doing and I am sure with a concentrated effort you too can be successful making stained, out of focus and botched prints.

summicron1 · Jan 4, 2015

You want deterioration and chemical instability, but you want to keep it archival. These two things are incompatable.

So, do what they do with pinhole shots made in year-long exposures directly onto paper: wait until the image is to the state of decreptitude you want and then scan it. The original image will fade, but the scan will be relatively permanent.

ic-racer · Jan 4, 2015

Some things to try here: Dead Link Removed

eddie · Jan 4, 2015

In the book, Photo Art, by Worobiec and Spence, they write about biological decay. Basically, you take a finished, well washed, fiber print, and enclose it, with biological items, in a humid, sealed bag. You can use fresh leaves, soil, fruit peels, etc. The bacteria will grow and begin to feed on the gelatin. They will also deposit their waste. You have to check it regularly, as it can take weeks. They also mention the process is continuous, so you may not be able to stop the deterioration.

Bill Burk · Jan 4, 2015

Hi tkamiya,

I know exactly what to do!

Use a strong acid fixer and go straight to Selenium toner. You will get an overall brownish stain that you will hate.

It will occur immediately and I believe it is archival (as in - it's forever).

tkamiya · Jan 5, 2015

Summicron1 and BVY:
Well, I'm hoping there is a way. I've done flashing print in developers. (Solarisation/Sabatier effect?) That wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but I got close when I let it develop a bit and turn the lights on. Also, how about if I do incomplete fixing, let it stain, then fix it completely?

Bill:
That might work. What did you use for Acid Fixer? Only fixers I have here are Ilford rapid fix and Kodak professional fixer. I wonder what causes that stain?? Fixer itself reacting to selenium toner?

tkamiya · Jan 5, 2015

Sirius Glass said:
Keep on doing what you are doing and I am sure with a concentrated effort you too can be successful making stained, out of focus and botched prints.

It's hard to mess up on purpose! Maybe I'll try to make perfect prints and it'll happen on its own....

tkamiya · Jan 5, 2015

Eddie:

ew! I don't think I want a "crappy live motion picture" here.

NedL · Jan 5, 2015

:devil:I had all kinds of crazy, unusual, and outrageous ideas, until you said:

tkamiya said:
I want to control them and make sure they don't get any worse than exactly the amount of "badness" I want.

Mike Crawford · Jan 5, 2015

I've done some work for clients where the print has been lightly stained in tea and some extra, very select areas brushed, flicked or sponged in tea, then the print is washed.

You may find some ideas in this video from Borut Peterlin which is done for effect and not for a fake ageing look. What I do like abut this one is that it ends with the work published in a magazine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcRxBp7Xu5c

tkamiya · Jan 5, 2015

Mike,

Thank you. The technique and the process is more in line with what I was looking for. I was not aware of UV light causing purple hue. I can use this as well as partial development. I am not really looking for aged look but am looking for damage and rough processing look. I can combine this with fix straight into selenium to cause staining. I've heard/read about use of tea and even wine. I am just not sure about longevity of the effect. While I am not looking for archival, I do want reasonable amount of permanence and stability.

Thanks again.

tkamiya · Jan 5, 2015

NedL said:
:devil:I had all kinds of crazy, unusual, and outrageous ideas, until you said:

I still ill want to hear your ideas.... Crazy is good!

Sirius Glass · Jan 5, 2015

Use your bare fingers to touch the prints. Especially it you contaminate your fingers with chemicals out of phase.

tkamiya · Jan 5, 2015

That's actually a great idea....

Bill Burk · Jan 5, 2015

Hi tkamiya,

It's Kodak Rapid Fixer, without hardener.

NedL · Jan 5, 2015

I was thinking of more extreme things like lighting your darkroom on fire, or putting the print through a paper shredder then scotch taping it back together, or burying the print underground for a few months, or running it over with your car, put it in the dishwasher , use arc-welder, sledgehammer, grinder, sander, jackhammer, steamroller .... but I do agree if you don't wash your print well enough after fixing, it will stain in the KRST!

Truzi · Jan 5, 2015

You could find someone who has never printed before to teach you

You can try abusing the paper before exposure or development; physically, chemically, or with any old thing (spill pop on it, etc.). That way, if nothing else, at least you can fix it properly.

removed account4 · Jan 6, 2015

a couple more ideas ...

heat and fog thr paper before you print on it
use excessively spent developer which will
fog and stain the print put the image in water partway with small amounts od old fahioned hypo
and add developer to it and with the lights on put it in the fix ...
you will have to work at it .. its harder to make a bad print than a good one sometimes ...

winger · Jan 6, 2015

What about this - http://www.freestylephoto.biz/chromoskedasic-sabatier - it's the look, but can be made to be fairly permanent.

tkamiya · Jan 6, 2015

Muahahahaha........ evil mode ON!

Steve Smith · Jan 6, 2015

tkamiya said:
For example, insufficient fixing will cause stains and browning/yellowing of prints.

Just send your negatives to me!

Steve.

Mike Crawford · Jan 6, 2015

tkamiya said:
Mike,

Thank you. The technique and the process is more in line with what I was looking for. I was not aware of UV light causing purple hue. I can use this as well as partial development. I am not really looking for aged look but am looking for damage and rough processing look. I can combine this with fix straight into selenium to cause staining. I've heard/read about use of tea and even wine. I am just not sure about longevity of the effect. While I am not looking for archival, I do want reasonable amount of permanence and stability.

Thanks again.

Not just UV light, but any light will give strange colours. Check out Mr Chemigram, Pierre Cordier, who has done amazing work fogging, fixing and developing paper.
http://www.pierrecordier.com/en/chimigramme.html
He was part of a big Cameraless show at the V&A in London a few years ago.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/users/album/16121
Nice video of him made for the show.
http://vimeo.com/13149446
Probably not what you are looking for amazing what you can do in the darkroom with no negatives!

RalphLambrecht · Jan 6, 2015

tkamiya said:
This is probably the weirdest thing asked on this forum....

I am trying to make badly processed prints on purpose. I want stains, uneven processing, fogging, etc, etc, etc, but here's a catch. I want to control them and make sure they don't get any worse than exactly the amount of "badness" I want.

For example, insufficient fixing will cause stains and browning/yellowing of prints. I want it but I want it to stop at a certain point. I've done turning lights on during development stage and do the rest, I've done insufficient fixing and selenium toning after to cause bad stains. Sprinkled bleach (ferri) and fix, etc, etc, etc. Incompletely fixed prints just kept getting worse with time.

Has anyone done these for effects? I have a certain image that will benefit from this kind of image manipulation.

Here is how to mess up processing:
1.pull print from developer too early will give you weak shadows and muddled midtones.
2.use only one fixing bathkept fr way too long and you'll end up with residuale silver halide,which will eventually stain and yellow the print.
3. wash the print only briefly and only in ice-cold water,which will leave fixer in the paper fibers and stain eventually.
4.do not tone but dry and mount with glue and frame immediatelyand store outside pointing towards the sun.Within a few years this print will stain, yellow and look horrid.

How do I make badly processed prints??

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