How could i achieve this look with an RA4 print?

bobbyfrench · Oct 26, 2019

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could help me with how this look might be achieved when printing in the darkroom.

There is obviously a lot of red and yellow in the image, but the border looks like it has a slight blue tint, which makes me think that maybe the whole sheet of paper was pre-flashed or something similar?

Also how the blacks look washed out.

View the rest of the series here, they all have a consistent look: https://www.franklynbanks.com/pier

If anyone has any ideas i'd really appreciate it.

ic-racer · Oct 26, 2019

What does your current RA4 look like when you scan the prints?

pentaxuser · Oct 26, 2019

Frankly they look fairly normal to me There is just a hint that the main one of the girl is overdeveloped slightly but that's film processing of course. I once overdeveloped by 30 secs to about 3' 45" and I got this higher contrast over -saturated look but to be fair not all of the photographer's shots look the same way as the main one of the girl with deep auburn/red air. She may have such hair in "real life" If these are either digital or the result of neg scan manipulation then I have no idea

pentaxuser

jtk · Oct 26, 2019

Looking at this and his other online images I'd say he didn't use any unique printing technique or even optimal original photo technique. Much does look less than crisp. Some may show a little flare due to rear lighting and lack of lens hood.

The girl with braids appears to be a little red, possibly due to good luck.

Ian Grant · Oct 26, 2019

There's a huge clue in the image of the same girl standing with a dog, and it's the long shadows these are taken at dusk when you get a golden light. Last image has a reflection of the sunset,

Low evening light towards dusk and you can get great lighting and these effects

Ian

foc · Oct 27, 2019

How were the original images printed?
Normally with RA4 printing, if you get the unexposed white area (like the border in the images) of a print showing a blue cast and the blacks are not solid, it indicates that a dev problem.
Were the images subjected to a digital filter/effect or is that just the way the website presents the images?

Ian Grant has hit the nail on the head regarding the look (lighting) in the images.

I think you have two things at play here, print presentation (tinted border) and image lighting when taking the photo.

MattKing · Oct 27, 2019

There is a chance that the blue cast in the scan is due to how it has been digitally prepared for upload to the internet.
After a quick copy and a tweak or two:

pentaxuser · Oct 27, 2019

Just out of curiosity, Bobby, where are the washed out blacks? Is this a reference to the belt over her shoulder. If so I strongly suspect it might be a charcoal grey colour and simply looks like washed-out black in the strong late sunshine

pentaxuser

Bikerider · Oct 27, 2019

If it were 'pre flashed' then the edges more than likely would be reddish, not blue. For that problem I would think it could point to some sort of chemical contamination. It is not heavy enough enough to affect the main picture, but shows on the plain whites.

If you don't like the warm effect, it is possible to change the filtration to introduce more blue (Remove yellow) or even try removing cyan. (add yellow+Magenta in equal quantities) I have always believed that it is not good practise to use the cyan filter on it's own. I find that the most difficult colour shift to manage or recognise, is cyan.

The strap over the girls shoulder may be black in real life, but if it is even slightly shiny, that will reduce the impact of the tone which you think should be black..

It could also be a shorter exposure would change the balance, and at the same time give some texture into the hair on the back of he night.

Only experimentation will tell.

Otherwise you are not far off the mark

jtk · Oct 28, 2019

The strap over her shoulder is obviously (on my laptop and my phone) a textured nylon strap. Based on the variety of images on the photographer's website, my impression is that he isn't into subtleties of color. The red girl is outstanding...good luck.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 28, 2019

I think shoot during the Golden Hour, use a warming filter and make the print slightly redder than a neutral color balance. Also, I think the low contrast of the print makes me think that the paper was pre-flashed. If you pre-flash with a cyan filter, you will lower the contrast as well as give your print a warmer tone.

Brent Waterworth · Feb 10, 2022

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I think shoot during the Golden Hour, use a warming filter and make the print slightly redder than a neutral color balance. Also, I think the low contrast of the print makes me think that the paper was pre-flashed. If you pre-flash with a cyan filter, you will lower the contrast as well as give your print a warmer tone.

I was researching pre-flashing & come across this thread & was curious if you had any more info on it that would elaborate on the subject a bit more? I shoot pretty much 100% of my work with Portra 400 & was reading how you need to use a blank part of the film stock to find the “neutral” tone for your print?

I understand the concept, more or less…but am a little confused on the different methods in terms of color “tone” application compared to “neutral” & when to use one over the other.

EDIT: After re-reading your comment & going based on the fundamentals of RA4 printing - if i’m understanding correctly you’re saying the image OP was inquiring about is warm (and) the (white) boarders are now blue-ish & cool in tone because the print was most likely pre-flashes using a Cyan filter? (which would have a dual effect on the warmth being the opposite of the Cyan color BUT influencing that neutral white border?

Thanks,
-b

pentaxuser · Feb 10, 2022

Well we seem to have the revival of this thread with some purpose as well which is good. The OP never made another post on this or any other subject and lasted 3 weeks only before he was last seen on Photrio in Nov 2020. I always find such behaviour a little strange

pentaxuser

Brent Waterworth · Feb 10, 2022

pentaxuser said:
Well we seem to have the revival of this thread with some purpose as well which is good. The OP never made another post on this or any other subject and lasted 3 weeks only before he was last seen on Photrio in Nov 2020. I always find such behaviour a little strange.

pentaxuser

I’m always searching what i’m looking for before creating a new (yet exhausted) thread topic. I figured people on here would prefer keeping it all in one rather than flooding the forum with repetitive topics in new threads.

Brent Waterworth · Feb 10, 2022

update: after further researching i’ve gotten some answers but there’s still some uncertainty - but i figure that will be resolved with experimentation in the darkroom.

for anyone that cares, i found & purchased this pre-flash unit so i don’t have to pre-flash a bunch of paper prior to print making or buying a 2nd “dedicated” enlarger just for pre-flashing: https://rhdesigns.co.uk/product/paper-flasher-ii/

my last question before i dive into this today is:
is it best to figure out the exposure time & desired color filtration settings prior to using pre-flashed paper?
i’ve read one person going about it this way but wasn’t sure if that was a more efficient way of going about it or not.

thanks,
-b

pentaxuser · Feb 10, 2022

Brent Waterworth said:
I’m always searching what i’m looking for before creating a new (yet exhausted) thread topic. I figured people on here would prefer keeping it all in one rather than flooding the forum with repetitive topics in new threads.

Absolutely right Brent. My comment on strange behaviour was directed at the OP and certainly not you

pentaxuser

koraks · Feb 11, 2022

Brent Waterworth said:
is it best to figure out the exposure time & desired color filtration settings prior to using pre-flashed paper?

No, IMO you should determine these using pre-flashed paper. Especially due to the use of a light source of unknown characteristics for the pre-flashing; it may subtly alter hues compared to a "straight" print onto fresh paper, especially in the lighter tones. Also density in the highlights will be affected by the preflash (obviously) so you need to take this into account when determining correct exposure time. Good luck!

brbo · Feb 11, 2022

Brent Waterworth said:
for anyone that cares, i found & purchased this pre-flash unit so i don’t have to pre-flash a bunch of paper prior to print making or buying a 2nd “dedicated” enlarger just for pre-flashing: https://rhdesigns.co.uk/product/paper-flasher-ii/

Don't forget that you will need to use colour filters with this paper flasher.

alx88 · Mar 5, 2022

brbo said:
Don't forget that you will need to use colour filters with this paper flasher.

Any more info on this?

brbo · Mar 5, 2022

alx88 said:
Any more info on this?

More info as in "what filters" or "why"?

Brent Waterworth · Mar 5, 2022

brbo said:
Don't forget that you will need to use colour filters with this paper flasher.

you’re 100% right. if you want to use different colors with your tones, you’ll either need a 2nd enlarger (or) do what i have been doing & pre-flash paper prior to your final prints. i’ve got a system down now but it was tedious for sure at the beginning.

Brent Waterworth · Mar 5, 2022

alx88 said:
Any more info on this?

that particular “Paper Flasher” is only going to output one specific light with no ability to use different tonality hue change the way you can if you were using an actual color enlarger with the CMY channels. (you won’t be able to alter color when pre-flashing.)

most people have a dedicated color enlarger that you can flash your paper with when needed so you don’t have to do what i do which is take your negative carrier out (so you’re not exposing an image into the paper when flashing) & pre-flash your paper - then put it back in & re-compose/focus your image.

Brent Waterworth · Mar 5, 2022

koraks said:
No, IMO you should determine these using pre-flashed paper. Especially due to the use of a light source of unknown characteristics for the pre-flashing; it may subtly alter hues compared to a "straight" print onto fresh paper, especially in the lighter tones. Also density in the highlights will be affected by the preflash (obviously) so you need to take this into account when determining correct exposure time. Good luck!

thanks for the suggestion Koraks. i’ve found the need & benefit of seeing what the print looks like either neutralized (or where i’m happy with it) prior to pre-flashing - when experimenting w/ different color hues.

for me, i use the pre-flash a ‘cherry on top’ & can only determine what color/tone intensity i prefer once the print is where it needs to be.

i’ve definitely had my fair share of needing to slightly move points on the color head in either direction to compensate depending on the print - but i think in the long run i’m saving more paper & time than if i were to arbitrarily apply a pre-flashed hue/tone to (x) amount of paper & be stuck with that particular look (specifically in my highlights) & have to troubleshoot that.

i wouldn’t be surprised if things change the more i keep doing it, however. seems to be the case every time i finish a session

mshchem · Mar 5, 2022

Ian Grant said:
There's a huge clue in the image of the same girl standing with a dog, and it's the long shadows these are taken at dusk when you get a golden light. Last image has a reflection of the sunset,

Low evening light towards dusk and you can get great lighting and these effects

Ian

+1 it's the light. Beautiful.

foc · Mar 5, 2022

Photography: The word, derived from the Greek photos (“light”) and graphein (“to draw”), literally meaning, drawing with light.
It is the light that makes this photo (evening light).
No amount of filters will give the same effect.

How could i achieve this look with an RA4 print?

bobbyfrench

ic-racer

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koraks

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brbo

alx88

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How could i achieve this look with an RA4 print?

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