How can the Flic Film C-41 kit get away with p-Phenylenediamine instead of CD4?

dcy

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I stumbled on this 18-month-old thread. I didn't want to revive an old thread only to take a tangent, so I'm asking here.

The Flic Film C-41 kit uses p-Phenylenediamine (PPD) instead of CD4. How can that possibly work? Yes, I know that PPD is a precursor of CD4, but the molecules aren't that similar. I am surprised that a color coupler intended for CD4 would produce anything close to the correct dye if it's given PPD instead. Honestly, CD3 and CD4 look a lot closer to each other than either does to PPD.

I am sure the kit wouldn't pass a rigorous test, but that's not what I'm thinking of. I don't understand how the dyes can even be in the ball park. If you change the dye with a completely different molecule, I could easily have imagined that blue could turn violet and green could turn yellow, and the overall image could just look like an alien planet. But clearly that's not what happens.

Interestingly, Flic Film's ECN-2 kit uses CD3 and not PPD.
 

Donald Qualls

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It might be (legally) what it says it is and still be C-41. It's my understanding that all the CD-series color developers are derivatives of p-phenylenediamine, it might be legit to list CD-4 on an SDS as that parent chemical (family).
 
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dcy

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It might be (legally) what it says it is and still be C-41. It's my understanding that all the CD-series color developers are derivatives of p-phenylenediamine, it might be legit to list CD-4 on an SDS as that parent chemical (family).

You think that's a real possibility? p-Phenylenediamine is literally just a benzine ring with amine groups at either end. Here's the diagram of PPD vs color developing agents 1, 2, 3, and 4.

- - - -
 

Donald Qualls

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I'm neither an organic chemist nor an OSHA/EPA expert. It was just a suggestion. FWIW, CD-1, CD-2 and CD-3 still bear some similarity.
 

Don_ih

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At this point, I'm pretty sure if you could coax colour film development out of cat pee, you could call it C41 developer. Apart from finger-wagging on the internet, there's no governing body to tell you to stop. Is there?
 

mshchem

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At this point, I'm pretty sure if you could coax colour film development out of cat pee, you could call it C41 developer. Apart from finger-wagging on the internet, there's no governing body to tell you to stop. Is there?

Cat Pee and instant coffee
 

halfaman

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Even it is requested, msds is a manufacturer voluntary declaration about a product hazards and some needed safety measures. No public agency is watching that what you are declaring is accurate. At least in the UE, you ony fill the dangerous ingredients part and the rest is automatically generated with the information from ECHA database.
 

koraks

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coax colour film development out of cat pee
I'd have great respect for those who could manage to make a business out of it. If the ancient Greeks had shared a fondness with the Egyptians for cats, I'm sure one of the Herculean tasks would have been to collect a cup of cat pee. Anyone who has ever tried to comply with a vet's request to "please collect some of the urine of your cat so we can decide if its urinary tract infection really needs to be treated with antibiotics" will understand what I mean!

No public agency is watching that what you are declaring is accurate.
However, if as a manufacturer you state incorrect information in a document pertaining to potential hazards of your products, you'd put yourself in a very tricky position legally speaking. I don't think any manufacturer is going to risk this, really. Well, not any sane manufacturer.
 
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