How can I fix Efke film curl?

brian steinberger · Mar 25, 2008

I've been doing some initial tests with Efke films, particularly the IR 820. When the film dries it is very curly. I've even begun to hang it but two clips at the top and two at the bottom and it doesn't help. It's just annoying. Would putting weight on it for a few days help, like with FB prints? Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks

david b · Mar 25, 2008

try another film?

just kidding....how about a heavy book on top of the neg sheet?

Anscojohn · Mar 25, 2008

You don't say if it is roll film or not. If so, reverse rolling for a couple of days might help. Be careful not to scratch it, though.

John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

aparat · Mar 25, 2008

If it curls lengthwise, you might consider rolling it into the opposite direction and placing it inside a tube, such as that of a paper towel roll. I sometimes do that to Fomapan film in 120, as it tends to curl after being dried on-reel in my Senrac dryer.

aparat

brian steinberger · Mar 25, 2008

Yeah, I'm using 120 film. That makes sense to curl it the opposite direction. I'll try that. Thanks!

Denis P. · Mar 25, 2008

I've had similar problems recently with some Rollei Retro 400 MF film.

I've solved the problem by inserting the cut film strips into acetate negative holders and rolling them into a tube (in the opposite direction), leaving them rolled for about 24 hours (secured by rubber bands).

After 24 hours, the film strips are flat enough for scanning.

Dave Miller · Mar 25, 2008

Try loading them on the developing spiral against the curl.

Guillaume Zuili · Mar 26, 2008

I never had this problem. I don't use a dryer and let them dry all night. 120 and 135 flat.
G.

snallan · Mar 26, 2008

I think the curl developing in a length of film can be very sensitive to the temperature/humidity of the environment in which the film dries (as that is going to affect the state of the gelatin coating on the emulsion side of the film). I do use a drying cabinet, and have the temperature setting just right for 35mm/120 roll film, which dry nice and flat. However, if I raise the drying temperature by more than 3 to 4 degrees, the film curls into the emulsion side; if I lower the temperature by more than 3 or 4 degrees, the film will curl into the base side!

It might be worth drying your film in the bathroom, particularly if you can effect some control over the temperature and humidity. Either by running a hot shower for several minutes before you hang your film, or by turning up a radiator, or other heater to adjust the temperature before hanging the film to dry. This is definitely something that will require some experimentation.

Photo Engineer · Mar 26, 2008

If you do a search, you will find that these problems are about 99.9999999999999% of the time with 3rd tier films. You get what you pay for. Only the big three take measures to completely prevent this problem.

PE

Guillaume Zuili · Mar 27, 2008

PE...
Big three are great. -)
But "small others" get much more character some time...
You get what you look for.
G.

Photo Engineer · Mar 27, 2008

Guillaume;

I don't disagree, but complaining about your choice???? That is like getting the character with 50% loss due to coating defects. You got your character! What else do you want?

PE

Guillaume Zuili · Mar 27, 2008

I aint complaining !!!! Love my Efke25...
-)
Cheers,
G.

ntenny · Mar 28, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
If you do a search, you will find that these problems are about 99.9999999999999% of the time with 3rd tier films. You get what you pay for. Only the big three take measures to completely prevent this problem.

Yeah, but none of the "big three" make anything very much like the Efke IR that started the thread, or like Efke/Adox 25, or Adox ORT 25...

-NT

Photo Engineer · Mar 28, 2008

ntenny said:
Yeah, but none of the "big three" make anything very much like the Efke IR that started the thread, or like Efke/Adox 25, or Adox ORT 25...

-NT

I don't disagree.

I merely point out that the curl problem is inherent in the product and cannot be easily removed. Therefore, if you want the features of the product, you just have to live with the problem.

It is like buying a high power car and complaining about the price of gas. But if you want a high power car, it drinks gas and there is little that can be done about it.

Now if you want less curl, what you have to do is ask EFKE to improve their product with anti curl formulations.

PE

bennoj · Mar 28, 2008

Cut the film in to strips, put the strips into sleeves, put the sleeves at the bottom of a plile of wide heavy things on a flat smooth surface, wait a few days, curl gone.

PhotoJim · Mar 28, 2008

The curl is annoying, but it is livable.

Besides, isn't it good if Kodak, Ilford and Fuji have a tangible advantage over the inexpensive manufacturers?

Photo Engineer · Mar 28, 2008

Awww, and I wanted to give you a reason to buy Kodak film.

PE

ntenny · Mar 28, 2008

bennoj said:
Cut the film in to strips, put the strips into sleeves, put the sleeves at the bottom of a plile of wide heavy things on a flat smooth surface, wait a few days, curl gone.

Have you done this with the Efke IR specifically? That stuff is seriously sproingy, in a league with Fomapan. I don't have a significant problem with their other films, but the one roll I've tried of the IR sat for a good long time flattening out under a pile of plate cameras, and in the end still curled violently.

I don't think it's a matter of not including anti-curling agents as PE suggests; I think Efke are loading this stuff up with *pro*-curling agents as part of some sort of complex, subtle scheme for world domination.

Next time I'll try the idea of loading it on the spiral backwards.

-NT

PeteZ8 · Mar 28, 2008

I wouldn't say this is just a problem with films from outside the big names. I have been having issues with Tri-X (135) curling as well. Not curling like it wants to roll back up, it dries perfectly straight, but it dries like a tape measure. Curled lengthwises and thus making the film very inflexable and risky to load into an negative carrier.

I am drying in ambient temp of about 65* F in a spare room. Is there a more ideal drying temp? If so I can bump the temp with a small space heater.

Photo Engineer · Mar 28, 2008

Pete;

Is this old or new Tri-X? That is, how old is it? Film kept spooled and refrigerated or frozen for a long time will develop a 'set' that causes it to curl as you describe.

The Kodak conditioning is at 75F/50% RH. This is optimum.

PE

ntenny · Apr 12, 2008

ntenny said:
Next time I'll try the idea of loading it on the spiral backwards.

I did this, and I think it helped a bit, but any improvement was less than dramatic. After two weeks being weighted down by some plate cameras, the film (Efke IR in 120) was still springy enough that it was a significant battle to get it flat enough to scan.

-NT

Sino · Apr 13, 2008

My first results with EFKE KB50 came out just fine, after using two heavy clips on the bottom of the strips and letting them dry overnight. No curling at all. The advice I was given is to keep all chemicals and final wash at the same temperature and it worked for me. I didn't use a hardening fixer either.

-Sino.

haris · Apr 13, 2008

Cut film, put it into sleevew and put it under something heavy

Seriously, I never thought of this as problem, even if film is curled, when I put it into enlrager, pressing of enlarger head keeps it flat when make prints...

bennoj · Apr 14, 2008

ntenny said:
Have you done this with the Efke IR specifically?

-NT

No, I don't shoot IR, but I've had Efke 25 and 50 that was bascially curled into a long tube and getting it into film sleeves and under some weight worked fine. YMMV.

How can I fix Efke film curl?

haris

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