Horseman 970 Roll Film back: Difficult to Fit on Camera

I received 2 6x9 roll film backs with my Horseman 970 when I bought it a few weeks ago. There is an older model P60/25 (same grey colour as the camera, and I presume it's contemporary with it) and black, later model.

The grey version has tabs and is a pain to fit and remove.

The shape of the winder housing juts up against the locking slider and stops the top tab from being inserted, when the winder is positioned 'the right way up' (see photo back 1) . When the back is upside down, the top tab appears to fit into its slot, but won't move to the left, to 'slot in' (see photo: 'back 2'). The only way I can get the back to fit is by inserting the bottom tab while lifting the top hinge - which is not easy, and I've got the blood blisters to prove it (see: photo 'back 3').

It seems like I'm doing something wrong and/or something is awry with the mechanisms, as I assume that the grey back is the one intended for use with this model of the camera.

The black version has no metal tabs on the top and bottom, and is very easy to fit and remove. (see: photo 'back 4').

All thoughts welcome.

Get another one like the black one. I remember when I got my Horseman, B&H was still selling those NEW. Of course you will have to get another used one these days.
Since I hold the camera with my right hand, I attach the back with the lever on the bottom, so I can use it with my left thumb.
Originally there were rubber extensions to make using the viewfinder and rangefinder easier with the back installed, but those are very rare. I have been collecting Horseman equipment for years and have never seen them for sale.

ic-racer said:

Get another one like the black one. I remember when I got my Horseman, B&H was still selling those NEW. Of course you will have to get another used one these days.

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I will need to buy a black one if I can't work out the problem with the grey one. But, I'd rather see if there's a way to make it easier to to fit, first.

Stephen Power said:

I will need to buy a black one if I can't work out the problem with the grey one. But, I'd rather see if there's a way to make it easier to to fit, first.

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well, you certainly found out that the grey/silver one goes indeed with the winding lever down...
I was searching the forum for something else Horseman related when I spotted this question. Made me smile,. but it depends your mileage of course. i am used to some SLR and rangefinders from the 60's, that had the winding/cocking lever on the bottom instead of top,. most known probably an old version of the Praktica.

anyway, I received my first Horseman, a 985, the other day, and it came with the grey/silver film back, and I bought also another back, the black one.
I had no issue at all with the older one, because the small window showing the "S" (start), then the frames counter (1 to 8) gives the correct position, which is indeed with lever in buttom. You can˝t anyway install it correctly fit the other way around.







also, japanese instructions online do confirm this: http://www.mediajoy.com/mjc/cla_came/horseman970/04.html
I put a screenshot of the page in case the site will disappear:




I prefer this one, because the unlock button, to advance the roll to next frame, is easier than on the black one, for me.

The black one has the counter on top, and the small unlock lever requires to sneak a finger tip or nail in:






but with intensive usage maybe the small round button on the grey back may break or be ripped off, so ...

Something else: the grey back seems to be designed with the dark slide to be kept in the slot, instead of pulled out, so as light seal maybe. This because the red lines:






no such red lines on the dark slide of the black back.

on my first roll, I had a vertical straight light leak on two frames.




so I put thick foam inside the groove all around the door of the back and on the sides, plus a very thin strip of felt under the plate of the dark slide slot (there is a piece of bent copper sheet as pressure spring to close the slot, and two strips of thin hard rubber that may wore out somewhat with time)

antonio_b said:

well, you certainly found out that the grey/silver one goes indeed with the winding lever down...I was searching the forum for something else Horseman related when I spotted this question...

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Thank you for reviving this thread and for the helpful photos and your feedback. I have to say, that I have since tried the grey back on the Horseman and still can't get it to fit, even upside down. There are two metal prongs on the back of my 970, where the small metal post (on the back) should fit.

With my 970 and this back, they just won't 'marry' together. The best I can do is get the top post attached but the bottom one is free (or vice versa). The posts on the viewing screen fit perfectly and the black back goes on easily. I'm wondering if the grey back is faulty in some way?

Your tip about the red line on the dark slide for the grey back was excellent. I can see that mine has one, but it's not on the black back, and I've been fully removing that dark slide, with no light leak issues at all.

By the way, there is an English version of the Horseman 970 'User Guide' that you screen shot, AT THIS LINK. It's been there for a long time, but you may want to screenshot it.

UPDATE: I had another go, and it's possible to get the back on, by lifting the prongs to engage with the posts on the grey back. But, the locking tabs on RH side won't sit into the slots on the back, so it's not light-proof and will easily lift up on the RH side.

Stephen Power said:

There are two metal prongs on the back of my 970, where the small metal post (on the back) should fit.

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I didn't look closely at your pictures. Indeed the back of the body is different, on my 985 no prongs, but room on the left for the springs of the 6x9 focusing panel. Otherwise just the graflocks.
This is my 985, locks off on the left, on on the right, no prongs:




with the groundglass panel and with the old silver/grey rollback:



same with the 4x5 extension:




it's somewhat annoying there's a lack of documentation available online, and in fact everything isn't compatible...

the dark slide for the grey back ... I can see that mine has one, but it's not on the black back, and I've been fully removing that dark slide, with no light leak issues at all.

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same here, when I remove the dark slide no light leaks. Leaks i had came from the groves in the front of the rollback

UPDATE: I had another go, and it's possible to get the back on, by lifting the prongs to engage with the posts on the grey back. But, the locking tabs on RH side won't sit into the slots on the back, so it's not light-proof and will easily lift up on the RH side.

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so it˝s hold partially by spring tension only like a focusing panel...

Hi Guys...very new to the Horseman 970, have been mainly Rollei thus far, but having acquired a 970 with a 'loose back' which turned out to be broken/mismatched retaining pins on the rear catches, I am trying to figure out what the original retainer looked like, & if it's possible to find 2 replacement ones, or if there is an alternative from something like the Linhof which may work ?
I am unsure whether there are springs on both top and bottom retaining catches as there was just one on the bottom on mine, and the top has what appears to be a ground down nut & bolt assembly holding it, albeit really uselessly, in place. As arrowed, the bottom pin had a circlip holding it in place and seemingly has sheared from the two pieces that held the spring in situ.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated, also looking for the correct film back for this model

Can you send it back. This will be very difficult to fix unless you have an ability to make new parts. Maybe get a second camera as a parts donor.