Horizon 205PC

nicolasllasera · Apr 20, 2015

I have been lent a Horizon 205PC thats has been unused since they bought it new. Everything seems to work fine.

What i dont know is if i should chance the shutter speed before i cock the shutter or after. The instructions seem to be a bad translation from russian.

Any info will be great.

http://www.zenitcamera.com/mans/horizon-205/horizon-205-eng.html

Thanks in advance.

Daire Quinlan · Apr 20, 2015

From that page:
"The shutter speed must be set only when the shutter has been released."

This would suggest you should set the shutter speed before cocking the shutter? Though that's the opposite from most other FSU cameras so it could be just something lost in translation.

nicolasllasera · Apr 20, 2015

Daire Quinlan said:
From that page:
"The shutter speed must be set only when the shutter has been released."

This would suggest you should set the shutter speed before cocking the shutter? Though that's the opposite from most other FSU cameras so it could be just something lost in translation.

Thats what I understood but also find it weird. I just dont want to break it before I get to use it.

europanorama · Apr 30, 2015

Yes its delicate. I have heard of bad things with the prototype shown at photokina. i once tested but i could not precisely.
do everything slowly.
1. i says leave the shutter-uncocked between long pauses. Not wound. If then only do it slowly in my opinion mainly when slow exposure times are used.
2. dont change speeds when shutter is cocked. its a different more delicate mechanism than in kiev60 6x6.
i am rotapancamera-specialist: horizont,horizon 202, s3pro, widelux 1500, roundshot 65/70/220. i have a rotating panoramic camera forum at delphiforums.
with widelux 1500 images below 5m were not so sharp. has to do with the optical path.
noblex handled that better with closeup-lenses and focus. dont know why maybe smaller slit.
could you pls count rotating times(at least the ones with longer exposures) with open back?
we can then calculate slit-widht. you should have/produce a DOF-table since 50mm is a relative long FL mainly when shooting near around 2-10m. only must then first calculate which COC this lens is capable of. one must test-shoot a very sharp target at different distances etc. everything time-consuming, best would be developping b+w yourself.

abzoran · May 5, 2015

I am interested in getting panoramic camera but have not decided yet on the model. How do you like this horizon? Could you please post a few pictures with the camera.

europanorama · Jun 8, 2015

get the s3pro and avoid f16 if you want to enlarge big prints. its the topmodel with 8 exposure times. and mechanics are of topquality at least when new. dont buy it used. get it with the new/old style leather bag. grip can be attached and is locking out.
later try to attach this dymotape i described elsewhere in details. you will then get better Depht-of field when shooting near objects. first try that out on tripod. one will get amazing results without losing sharpness at infinity when stopped down a bit. use cable-release for slower speeds. shoot moving persons only with quicker rotation.
loading film is delicate. pls study instructions or ask the owners here.
regarding shutte-cocking:
Its simple to remind. dont change speed when shutter is under tension: cocked
only change speed when shutter is uncocked. so better leave shutter uncocked after shooting. only do it after shutter-decision has been made and executed.

Sirius Glass · Jun 8, 2015

Daire Quinlan said:
From that page:
"The shutter speed must be set only when the shutter has been released."

This would suggest you should set the shutter speed before cocking the shutter? Though that's the opposite from most other FSU cameras so it could be just something lost in translation.

There are similar restrictions for the WideLux 7 panorama camera that also has a swing lens. One should set the shutter speed before advancing the film. If one advanced the film and then changes the shutter speed, the shutter can be damaged. This is the one caution that must be observed. The other caution is to set the speed exactly on the line.

Tempe Camera can repair WideLux cameras, they may handle Horizons. I have used them several times and I am happy with their work which they guarantee.

http://www.tempecamera.biz/REPAIR_DEPARTMENT_s/17.htm

europanorama · Dec 31, 2020

europanorama said:
Yes its delicate. I have heard of bad things with the prototype shown at photokina. i once tested but i could not precisely.
do everything slowly.
1. i says leave the shutter-uncocked between long pauses. Not wound. If then only do it slowly in my opinion mainly when slow exposure times are used.
2. dont change speeds when shutter is cocked. its a different more delicate mechanism than in kiev60 6x6.
i am rotapancamera-specialist: horizont,horizon 202, s3pro, widelux 1500, roundshot 65/70/220. i have a rotating panoramic camera grouzp in delphiforum.

www.rotatingpanoramiccameras.tk this is also searchword in google or delphiforum
with widelux 1500 images below 5m were not so sharp. has to do with the optical path.
noblex handled that better with closeup-lenses and focus. dont know why maybe smaller slit.
could you pls count rotating times(at least the ones with longer exposures) with open back?
we can then calculate slit-widht. you should have/produce a DOF-table since 50mm is a relative long FL mainly when shooting near around 2-10m. only must then first calculate which COC this lens is capable of. one must test-shoot a very sharp target at different distances etc. everything time-consuming, best would be developping b+w yourself.

Huss · Jan 19, 2021

abzoran said:
I am interested in getting panoramic camera but have not decided yet on the model. How do you like this horizon? Could you please post a few pictures with the camera.

I used the Widelux F6, F7, Noblex 135 Sport, Horizon S3Pro and 202.

The ones I have kept are the Noblex 135 and 202. I hated the awful design in use (but nice to look at) Widelux with its very limited speeds. The S3Pro's lens is not as good as the 202. The Noblex has the best features of all of them.

europanorama · Jan 23, 2021

Huss said:
I used the Widelux F6, F7, Noblex 135 Sport, Horizon S3Pro and 202.

The ones I have kept are the Noblex 135 and 202. I hated the awful design in use (but nice to look at) Widelux with its very limited speeds. The S3Pro's lens is not as good as the 202. The Noblex has the best features of all of them.

S3Pro lens not as good as 202 is wrong! i compared(only pbase remove my account) with Dymotape installed on both. Dymotape is a remedy to enlarge limited DOF in fixfocussed Horizont/Horizon pan cams). Fact is: new lens was created for after 202-model. they thought doing best but thats wrong. they did better maybe in contrast or flar(didnt yet test) but S3Pro-lens has diffraction when stopped down to f11/16. from here is starting resulting in unsharp fine details which can be checked with 30x loupe. If dymotape is NOT added one cannot really compare maybe at infinity or larger distances than 5m. At closer distance sharpness is not yet perfect enough to see the difference. and 202-lens is very very sharp. KMZ-Zenit should have produced closeup-lenses which is easy task still can be done by an optician. daily glasses added. 0.25mm in filteradapter. goewecke also used stronger one for macrowork.
It is not that S3Pro-lens is considerably worse than 202 like i have read on rangefinderforum. it is very good stopped down to at least f5.6-11. 11/16 and more blurry images when enlarged a lot. in other words. A rotapancam-repairman should transplant 202-lens into S3Pro. when having Dymotape it makes no sense when knowing beyond f11 no perfect images can be created. AND: forget any DOF-table of theses cams. They are so untrue-too optimistic. even with Film-lens-distance changed.
I preached this endlessly in multiple forum over decades. I HAVE NOW ENOUGH PREACHED. some doubt my findings. those who dont need very sharp images. Rainer K. Lampinen. Co-Creator of all theses newer cams(he also created the shift-mechanisme in 205 PC) told 6m long velvia-posters could be made with Technopan. That was the Topmodel early 90ties with 8 exposure times S3Pro-alike. based on 202. Dont even think about the Kompakt. Widelux/Widepan-cams also have reduced exposure-options which is a BIG MESS. large format cams have even more problems with their fixfocus 50mm lenses. one must work with ND-filters which is very boring. Yes someone made a magnetic adapter for Widelux 1500. Noblex MF cam has it already.

fabulousrice · Mar 16, 2021

europanorama said:
S3Pro lens not as good as 202 is wrong! i compared(only pbase remove my account) with Dymotape installed on both. Dymotape is a remedy to enlarge limited DOF in fixfocussed Horizont/Horizon pan cams). Fact is: new lens was created for after 202-model. they thought doing best but thats wrong. they did better maybe in contrast or flar(didnt yet test) but S3Pro-lens has diffraction when stopped down to f11/16. from here is starting resulting in unsharp fine details which can be checked with 30x loupe. If dymotape is NOT added one cannot really compare maybe at infinity or larger distances than 5m. At closer distance sharpness is not yet perfect enough to see the difference. and 202-lens is very very sharp. KMZ-Zenit should have produced closeup-lenses which is easy task still can be done by an optician. daily glasses added. 0.25mm in filteradapter. goewecke also used stronger one for macrowork.
It is not that S3Pro-lens is considerably worse than 202 like i have read on rangefinderforum. it is very good stopped down to at least f5.6-11. 11/16 and more blurry images when enlarged a lot. in other words. A rotapancam-repairman should transplant 202-lens into S3Pro. when having Dymotape it makes no sense when knowing beyond f11 no perfect images can be created. AND: forget any DOF-table of theses cams. They are so untrue-too optimistic. even with Film-lens-distance changed.
I preached this endlessly in multiple forum over decades. I HAVE NOW ENOUGH PREACHED. some doubt my findings. those who dont need very sharp images. Rainer K. Lampinen. Co-Creator of all theses newer cams(he also created the shift-mechanisme in 205 PC) told 6m long velvia-posters could be made with Technopan. That was the Topmodel early 90ties with 8 exposure times S3Pro-alike. based on 202. Dont even think about the Kompakt. Widelux/Widepan-cams also have reduced exposure-options which is a BIG MESS. large format cams have even more problems with their fixfocus 50mm lenses. one must work with ND-filters which is very boring. Yes someone made a magnetic adapter for Widelux 1500. Noblex MF cam has it already.

TL, DR, could you share some pictures of your comparisons?

europanorama · Apr 23, 2021

no must dig them out have no time. it was on pbase still some remains but images gone, they pushed me out dont know why. its boring.
all is said since decades. and proven. next task would be using contact-lenses to make CU-lenses. all done by others. google Goewecke germany.
he let them be made by an optician. btw: the same method made for Horizont the mother of all these. i had one for testing fgrom Rainer K. Lampinen. All these old stuff bought by them. making these is delicate.

Horizon 205PC

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