Honest critique

NB23 · Oct 5, 2020

I have a good sense of humor, and my sarcasm is sometimes so sarcastic that I forget to let people know that I was sarcastic. I like it that way, someone has to fill those shoes, right?

And with regards to photography, If I take out my ego out of myself, I will realize that my photography is pretty bland.

On social media, and out in the world, my work flies pretty much under the radar: not much love, and no hate.

And then one honest critique came in, the other day. “Nothing will help you, not even the flash on the camera”

This was actually a great compliment.

Do you have some similar stories?

MartinCrabtree · Oct 5, 2020

Every once in awhile someone will look at one of my shots and say "wow I like that" or something like that. That's enough for me as I don't shoot for others just me. I'm expressing and capturing what I see and do not expect others to see what I do so it's OK.

DWThomas · Oct 5, 2020

Hehe, back a few years I had a solo show in a "gallery" that was a hallway in a local non-profit music school. The shows were generally monthly and arranged so the "opening" coincided with a concert. I was hanging around at the concert/opening for mine and at some point, three long retired couples came walking by slowly. At one point in front of probably the 30th out of the 38 prints I had up, one crusty looking guy turned to his entourage and the world in general and said quite audibly "Now there's the first one I've seen that I liked!"

One of the women accompanying him turned to me with a bit of a blush and said "don't pay any attention to him" as she made some hand motions to suggest he wasn't quite what he had once been. I found it amusing, as at least he was looking and actually had an opinion.

Fortunately, the overall reaction was good, and I did sell three pieces over the course of the showing.

pentaxuser · Oct 5, 2020

NB23 said:
And then one honest critique came in, the other day. “Nothing will help you, not even the flash on the camera”

This was actually a great compliment.

Do you have some similar stories?

No but the critique sounds as if it came from the mother-in-law Mother-in-laws are famous in the annals of British humour

pentaxuser

Вormental_old · Oct 5, 2020

Everything I do is a competitive sport by default. Why bother with something unless you can be amazing at it? But when it comes to photography, this habit of mine didn't work out. The photos I thought were my best, were not getting much praise from other people, yet some of my boring, run-of-the-mill shots were well-liked. This used to upset me and perhaps contributed to my abandonment of the hobby for 10+ years.

Now I host my albums on a private web site, and I love being my own audience. A good photograph has almost a therapeutic effect on me, it's like smoking weed with your eyes. I do not yet know what causes this effect, I suppose I am re-living the moment the photo was taken? When this happens, the last thing I need is critique. At the same time, when I'm looking at a mediocre image, a critique I find most helpful is "should have kept walking here".

Every once in a while I'd do a sharing experiment. Usually it follows the same pattern. Recently I uploaded about 20 shots from 2020 on Photrio and, predictably, my favorite photo of that set got the least amount of attention.

For that reason, I have no favorite famous photographers, but I prefer the street work by some photrio members to the work of Henri Cartier-Bresson, for example.

logan2z · Oct 5, 2020

As others have said, I shoot for myself and don't pay a lot of attention to what others might think of my photos - other than my wife, who is forced to look at them hanging on the walls at home

I've also posted some photos here that I really like that have been completely ignored, but that's fine. Everybody likes something else and it's unreasonable for me to expect that my likes will intersect with those of others.

I do share photos fairly regularly at critique sessions at a local not-for-profit photography gallery, just because it's fun to do so and it gives me an opportunity to meet other local photographers. It also forces me into the darkroom regularly to make prints. I have had some pretty positive feedback which is always nice to hear, and I've had some good constructive criticism as well.

I have no allusions that I'm going to become the next Lee Friedlander or Robert Frank so I just enjoy photography as a hobby and a way for me to get out of the house once in a while

logan2z · Oct 5, 2020

Вormental said:
For that reason, I have no favorite famous photographers, but I prefer the street work by some photrio members to the work of Henri Cartier-Bresson, for example.

That's interesting to hear. In my experience, most famous photographers are famous for a reason. In the street photography genre in particular, I think the work of famous practitioners (HCB, Garry Winogrand, Lee Friedlander, Robert Frank, Helen Levitt, etc) is head and shoulders above most of the stuff posted on forums and social media. When a photograph stops me in my tracks while I'm mindlessly scrolling through my Instagram feed, for example, it's invariably from a well-known photographer. Rarely does anything else pique my interest.

W_Taylor76 · Oct 5, 2020

I also just shoot for myself and photography is more of an additive hobby that anything else. It is hard to find people that willl give you an actual honest critique. Many times when I post photos on a critique site they will get critiqued, but there is no honesty in any of the critiques. They are the usual “Great photo,” “nice work,” etc. And like others have mentions, it is always the photos that aren’t your favorites that others seem to like more.

Honest critiques are nice in that they help you grow as an artist whether is it work that is just for you, or work that you might sell. Even though I just mainly shoot form myself, it is nice to know the areas that I can improve on.

Вormental_old · Oct 5, 2020

@logan2z My theory is... Every famous photographer has a few iconic masterpieces and a bunch of "good enough" works. Over time, the masterpieces get cloned/reproduced thousands of times and eventually become somewhat of a template. Meanwhile, "good enough" photos receive disproportional praise simply because of the photographer's brand. Anyway, it's just a theory.

logan2z · Oct 5, 2020

Вormental said:
@logan2z My theory is... Every famous photographer has a few iconic masterpieces and a bunch of "good enough" works. Over time, the masterpieces get cloned/reproduced thousands of times and eventually become somewhat of a template. Meanwhile, "good enough" photos receive disproportional praise simply because of the photographer's brand. Anyway, it's just a theory.

I don't disagree with that. I've heard several famous photographers say they'll be lucky if they take one hundred good photographs in their lifetime. Most estimate probably something closer to one a year. But I'd venture to say that the rest are still considerably better than what you'll see on a typical photography forum or a social media site. I'm sure there are exceptions but that's been my personal experience.

Ariston · Oct 5, 2020

Two of my favorite compliments, in order:

1) "Where is that?" - I like this one, because my favorite type of subject is one where, even if you wanted to, you would have a hard time finding it or even anything remotely similar to photograph.

2) "You took that?!" - Surely they think it is beyond my skill, so that's a nice compliment.

But mostly people just look, shrug, and walk away.

By the way, NB23, your work is definitely not of pedestrian quality. I think you know that.

pentaxuser · Oct 5, 2020

logan2z said:
I have no allusions that I'm going to become the next Lee Friedlander or Robert Frank

You could become the next Frank Robert and supply critiques to others. If the hit rate is as low as one a year as estimated by famous photographers, then avoid competitions run by Venture Capitalists

NB23 uses the word bland but we can all take consolation from the saying: "One man's Bland is another man's Brandt"

pentaxuser

awty · Oct 5, 2020

My favorite is "competent banality"
Would rather have a negative comment than no comment at all.

MartinCrabtree · Oct 5, 2020

awty said:
My favorite is "competent banality"
Would rather have a negative comment than no comment at all.

Agreed............at least it made them think.

George Mann · Oct 5, 2020

NB23 said:
I have a good sense of humor, and my sarcasm is sometimes so sarcastic that I forget to let people know that I was sarcastic.

It's easy to assume that they will understand your intent, but unfortunately, that's rarely the case.

BradS · Oct 5, 2020

awty said:
My favorite is "competent banality"
Would rather have a negative comment than no comment at all.

yes, and I'd add that I'd rather have a negative comment than a vapid comment like, "nice shot".

warden · Oct 5, 2020

BradS said:
yes, and I'd add that I'd rather have a negative comment than a vapid comment like, "nice shot".

Or the dreaded "you must have a nice camera."

BradS · Oct 5, 2020

jawarden said:
Or the dreaded "you must have a nice camera."

Ouch!

Ko.Fe. · Oct 5, 2020

Anna Boacharova (sush) has posted on some common photo sites. Some commented - "looks like pictures were taken by the child".
https://anna-sush.photographer.ru/

removed account4 · Oct 5, 2020

NB23 said:
Do you have some similar stories?

well. ... not exactly but. ..

back around the end undergraduate days I showed a. bunch of photographs I had made to my high school photography teacher. I had shown a variety things from Walker Evens / Eugene Atget -esque streetscapes and portraits &c to works made with hand made emulsion coxed onto glass plates and printed on store bought grade 3 or 4 seagull blue box photo paper. The teacher enjoyed the images and told me that I needed to show them to aarovnsiskind who used to teach locally and still lived locally. Eventually I was able to get an audience with AS, and I showed him a handful of images, the ones I showed my old teacher, AS told me to throw away my camera because I was wasting my time.
I didn't appreciate his nasty comments at the time, but nowadays some of my work is without a camera ..

fgorga · Oct 5, 2020

I make a distinction between "critique" and "comment".

Comments tend to come from random folks... "civilians" maybe and never come with a reason. "I like it." is a comment.

Critiques come from folks with some knowledge of the visual arts and always come with a reason. "I like it because...." is a critique.

I learn something from a comment be it positive or negative. I learn much more from a critique whether positive or negative.

pentaxuser · Oct 5, 2020

I had perhaps wrongly assumed this was critique given where it was not necessarily asked for but if it was deliberately sought then I understand why "nice shot" may seem irrelevant. On the other hand if it is a nice shot then saying so is a genuine critique isn't it or does critique imply that you have to find fault with it?

It may be that in the field of critiquers( is the such a word? - I fear not) a "nice" comment suggests vacuity, lack of judgement, not a genuine member of the critique club? I may not understand the rules here. Am I a bit like the innocent who inadvertently wanders into a Masonic Lodge,. is mistaken for a member of the Square but wonders why the handshakes seem different to what he is used to

pentaxuser

Ian Grant · Oct 6, 2020

fgorga said:
I make a distinction between "critique" and "comment".

Comments tend to come from random folks... "civilians" maybe and never come with a reason. "I like it." is a comment.

Critiques come from folks with some knowledge of the visual arts and always come with a reason. "I like it because...." is a critique.

I learn something from a comment be it positive or negative. I learn much more from a critique whether positive or negative.

I remember a few years ago someone here asking for an honest critique of an image and not liking the replies. It's not easy critiquing work and it's better done with a series of images rather than a single image. It's also important that the person acting as a critic has the ability to be critical of their own work and (in some cases or) a good knowledge of the medium - in our case photography.

It's also important to be able to understand and critique work you may have little interest in or may not like. So it's important to be open minded. Being able to talk and contextualise about your own work is also useful, something I learnt to do at workshops initially.

When I'm selecting work for exhibition I'm quite harsh on my editing, them I will ask some other photographers for input, usually I've already begun this while the work is in progress. It helps that I've curated a number of exhibitions over the years group shows and solo exhibitions, as well as my own.

It's also important to remember we don't see prints on Forums and what we see on the screen may not always be a good indicator. I commented about a Colour image on an another forum, a scan of a 5x4 E6 image, I realised it was the scan at fault rather than the E6 transparency, and commented I didn't think he'd got the best representation. He indicated that he no longer had access to the program he'd usually used needed new software and asked for recommendations.

Ian

perkeleellinen · Oct 6, 2020

jawarden said:
Or the dreaded "you must have a nice camera."

I've got an uncle who is into gear, always likes to have the latest and the most advanced. Spent a little too long on Betamax because of its superiority over VHS. He always had expensive cameras but his photos were 6x4 lab prints with not much thought going into them. I'm the opposite, I've scraped together my camera kit, mostly second hand, I'm printing in the darkroom and paying a lot of attention to composition. Each family gathering I pass round a few prints I like and my gear-minded uncle never says a word and he's a fellow photographer!

One time it's my grandparents' wedding anniversary, a big one like 70 years (they were in their mid 90s). I take a nice portrait of them and I spend a lot of time thinking about lighting and how to get them relaxed by pretending I'm fiddling with my flash. I print the colour photo in the darkroom and give it as a present and I'm really happy with how it comes out. They're delighted and pass it around the family. It comes to my gear-minded uncle and he looks at me and says 'nice sharp lens'.

NB23 · Oct 6, 2020

Thanks for the discussion, guys. Very good insights.

I’m also glad to know that a Flash wouldn’t save youze photography’s ass, either (insert thumb up emoji with a SLAM effect)

Honest critique

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