homemade c 41 processing problem

danzyc · Mar 9, 2009

hello friends! i have made this processing with tetenal c41 rapid kit..but the negative appear THIN with a light cyan cast in some photo.....i think that is underdeveloped....i will describe the process :
the working solution is 500 ml in air tight bottle (one month fresh and only one roll processed)...

when the thermometer hit 39 celtius i have dropped the solution in a tank for a total time of 3:30 minute....(not 500ml but 300 ml i have dropped because it is sufficent to cover a 35 mm roll).

i have noticed a cyan cast in the shadow..

bleach 4.00 ...stab 1.00...

thanks

Domin · Mar 9, 2009

What color was/is the developer?

What exactly kind of bottle you kept it in? Was it hdpe, pet, glass? Was there some air in it?

danzyc · Mar 9, 2009

the developer is a pink color....some people told me that a working solution of tetenal ra4 in air tightgt bottle have a long shelf life ...about five month..
my bottle is a plastic air tight bootle.....

srs5694 · Mar 9, 2009

I gather from your description that you've processed one roll, saved the used solution, and used it a month later to process a second roll. Please correct me if you meant something else. If I'm correct, then please clarify whether the first roll was acceptable. If so then I'd say that your developer has simply deteriorated over a month. C-41 doesn't last all that long at working strength, in my experience, although it does last longer in concentrated form or split up into multiple parts (as Kodak delivers it, for instance). I personally don't attempt to re-use C-41 for this reason; I use it one-shot.

You might also check your bottle or other packaging for expiration dates. It could be the developer was sitting on the shelf for too long before you bought it. (A far too likely occurrence given the decline in film photography over the past decade.)

Nick Zentena · Mar 9, 2009

danzyc said:
when the thermometer hit 39 celtius i have dropped the solution

Was the tank preheated? If not the moment you drop the developer into the cold tank [and this time of year the tank is likely COLD] the developer will drop in temp.

Try this. Heat some water and put it into a cold tank. Measure the temp of the water after 30 seconds. How warm is it?

danzyc · Mar 9, 2009

i have preheated the tank only externally ..........in hot water...

rossawilson1 · Mar 9, 2009

You said 39 degrees C, it's a 38 degree kit with about a half degree tolerance.

Is your thermometer accurate?
Were the bleach and stabilizer stages at a similar temperature?
You didn't mention rinse, did you rinse?
Did you rinse at a similar temperature?

Tetenal developer will not last 5 months at either working or undiluted strength.. you have six weeks. I've used mine up to 5 weeks apart with no problems so don't worry about re-use.

Do you have the instructions?

I've had no problems using the same kit but everything above can make a difference.

danzyc · Mar 9, 2009

i have measured the entire processing with a jobo color precision thermometer, preheated the tank externally......
drop the first developer at 39 degreee, after that i have rinsed for 4 minutes at about 37 degree....
bleach at about 38 degree for 4 , wash and stab.....

Nick Zentena · Mar 10, 2009

Bleach etc are much less temp sensitive normally. No idea about tental but if you look at the Kodak docs they give a WIDE temp range for all the steps other then the developer. If the temp is a little lower you just bleach a little longer.

I don't know if the Kodak Z documents are still online [I assume so] but they'll give the temperture range for each step. Z-119 I think. Or is it Z-131?

danzyc · Mar 10, 2009

do you wash after first developer? i have wash the film for about 4 minutes...at 36 degreee....

rossawilson1 · Mar 10, 2009

If we're talking about the same kit, Tetenal Rapid c41, then 1 degree may make a difference, you said you've drop at 39 C, try 38 C. I measure in F to within +/- half of a degree which is something like .3 of a C.

I've never rinsed after the developing process, only after bleach, could the fact you're not bleaching straight after the dev step not be stopping the developing fast enough like the bleach might???

Other than that I'm not sure what's happening.

danzyc · Mar 10, 2009

if the developing process may not be stopped i should have a overdevelopment...and not an underdevelopment...

stefan4u · Mar 10, 2009

Dear Danzyc.

If your negatives appear thin despite good tempering and even prolonged development time, they are surely under/mis-developed.

You say that your batch of 500ml developer is about 4 weeks old, used once and look pink?
The pink color you recognize, is the oxidized color developing agent, this stuff is exhausted, dump it!!

Brew a new batch and preferably use it one-shot. Always remember it’s color, it should be not darker than amber for best results.

By the way, your tempering is pretty well, with little volume processing the temperature drop of the first processing solution can be serious. Had the same problem, have to take 39,5°C to maintain a temperature of 38°C in a Jobo Multitank 2, for the first step. A (serious) dry prewarm takes much longer than the usual 5 minutes, more an hour or so, this is what my thermometer says…

One thing more, washing after developing is no good idea, use a stop bath. Simple water is too slow to stop the reactions deep in the emulsion. This can lead to enhanced red / pink color shifts

Regards,
Stefan

danzyc · Mar 11, 2009

If your negatives appear thin despite good tempering and even prolonged development time, they are surely under/mis-developed.

mhnnnn longer time would be overdeveloping or underdeveloping??

Domin · Mar 11, 2009

danzyc said:
the developer is a pink color....some people told me that a working solution of tetenal ra4 in air tightgt bottle have a long shelf life ...about five month..
my bottle is a plastic air tight bootle.....

It's important what exactly kind of plastic you use and how much air is left inside with the developer. HDPE is bad. PET and glass is good.

danzyc · Mar 11, 2009

i use this http://www.2spi.com/catalog/photo/images/2076.jpg

today i have developed a second roll....i have scanned the photo and seem to be fogged......the negative have a red mask and not an orange mask....

danzyc · Mar 11, 2009

i have posted an example for the latest roll scanned with nikon 9000 and not corrected...

stefan4u · Mar 11, 2009

High Danzyc.

Please, dump this developer (including this concertina LD-PE bottle) ! Do the same with the blix which lost for sure activity over the last 4 weeks…

Again, don’t use a simple water rinse between dev. and blix. Go direct to bleach / blix bath after developing or use a stop bath!

Regards,
Stefan

danzyc · Mar 11, 2009

in the last photo i have used a stop bath....which type of bottle should i buy?

Domin · Mar 11, 2009

danzyc said:
in the last photo i have used a stop bath....which type of bottle should i buy?

One with something to drink in it. If it's good for storing food or drink for months or years it should be good for the developer.

I'm serious - I personally use glass liquor or fruit juice bottles and pickles jars and fill space with lighter gas but PET soft drink bottles should be fine as well - they're ugly but you can squeeze air out of them.

srs5694 · Mar 11, 2009

danzyc said:
i use this http://www.2spi.com/catalog/photo/images/2076.jpg

Blech. Those are probably made out of HDPE (the ones I've seen are), which is permeable to gasses. Why most plastic bottles marketed for photochemistry are made out of HDPE is beyond me. The odd shape makes them hard to clean, too.

For information on plastic bottles for photochemistry, see this site. Personally, I use either glass or PET plastic. Most of my bottles are re-used drink bottles, although that might not be a good idea if you've got young kids in the house.

mtjade2007 · Mar 12, 2009

In my opinion you should get Kodak chemicals then follow the instructions, especially the capacity of the chemicals. You will get excellent and consistent negatives every time. I have been there, done that. There can be so many things to go wrong. It will be an endless effort to deal with all those problems. For me, I had spent too much time in troubleshooting and fixing my C-41 process. I wasted too much chemicals and films. I eventually realized that it's simply not worth it. I now buy large quantity of Kodak chemicals (enough for 1 to 2 years of use) each time and use the developer one shot only. Never needed to troubleshoot anything again.

mtjade2007 · Mar 12, 2009

This is the Kodak C-41 developer I buy these days:

Flexicolor Developer Starter LORR – 8.3gal, Kodak part number: 8485153
Flexicolor Developer Replenisher LORR – 10L, Kodak part number: 8121857

This is the C-41 bleach I use:
Flexicolor RA Bleach Replenisher NR – 5L, Kodak part number: 8255549

And here is the fixer I use: Flexicolor Bleach III – 1gal, Kodak part number: 8940801

This is where I bought these chemicals: http://www.changsphoto.com/inventory/chemical/kodak/01-kodakprochem.php
This supplier is located in Los Angeles California and they have a warehouse in Hayward (SFO Bay Area). You will have to call to get their prices. After placing your order you can then go visit their warehouse and pick up your order. They can ship (locally only I believe) at a fee.

Photo Engineer · Mar 12, 2009

Everyone leaves out the final rinse or stabilizer.

Why? Do you want to lose your negatives?????

PE

mtjade2007 · Mar 12, 2009

The reason I buy LORR version of the C-41 developer is because it has twice the capacity of the regular one. The LORR version of the starter must be used. The RA version of the bleach is supposed to bleach faster than the regular bleach. But I still bleach for 6'30" as usual. The Fixer I se can be found in retail photography supply stores still. I have many bottles of it still.

I use the developer only one shot and I use plenty of it for each roll of film I develop. I reuse the bleach and fixer. If there is any doubt I can always bleach and fix the film one more time. This is where I do still try to save. I use Kodak Final Rise at the end of the process. Found a deal on eBay and bought a box full of it for a song. I think there were 6 bottles and I am still on the first bottle.

homemade c 41 processing problem

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