Homebrew D-76 with accidentally 1.5 times the amount of S. Sulfite

zanxion72 · Jun 21, 2016

I had lots of fun last weekend with friends and beer and late yesterday while mixing some D76 I have realized that I have used 150 gr of Sodium Sulfate instead of 100 to make 1 lt (it took quite a lot to dissolve that extra Sodium Sulfate, but that beer effect...).
Should I discard it and mix new? Can it be used at 1:1? What would be the effect of the overdose of ss to the recipe?

JW PHOTO · Jun 21, 2016

zanxion72 said:
I had lots of fun last weekend with friends and beer and late yesterday while mixing some D76 I have realized that I have used 150 gr of Sodium Sulfate instead of 100 to make 1 lt (it took quite a lot to dissolve that extra Sodium Sulfate, but that beer effect...).
Should I discard it and mix new? Can it be used at 1:1? What would be the effect of the overdose of ss to the recipe?

Well, you could add half again as much metol (1g more), hydroquinone (2.5g more), borax(1g more) and then add 500ml more water. That will give you the same ratio and more developer. But, if you used sulfate instead of sulfite pop a beer, sit back and relax 'cause you won't be developing any film today. Dump it and don't drink it.

Grif · Jun 21, 2016

Well,,, from things I knew as a young man in school. You could back calculate the added other chemicals and dilution factor to make about double the volume, but I'm not sure I can even do that sober any more, (On paper).

Were it me, I'd pitch it.

Or,,, write down the weights of the chemicals you used, subtract all those from how much you need in a batch twice the volume you were just trying to make, add the chemicals necessary to make up the difference, and dilute to the new volume. Sounds all very doable.

I'd still pitch it.

Snarkie comment about beer and RTFD FTFD needed here ;-) (Read the F Documentation,,, Follow the F documentation) Retired Navy electronics instructor in a class I took years ago.

zanxion72 · Jun 21, 2016

JW PHOTO said:
Well, you could add half again as much metol (1g more), hydroquinone (2.5g more), borax(1g more) and then add 500ml more water. That will give you the same ratio and more developer. But, if you used sulfate instead of sulfite pop a beer, sit back and relax 'cause you won't be developing any film today. Dump it and don't drink it.

I will definitely not be drinking it.

Is it possible to add the rest of the ingredients now that it has all been mixed up?

JW PHOTO · Jun 21, 2016

zanxion72 said:
I will definitely not be drinking it.

Is it possible to add the rest of the ingredients now that it has all been mixed up?

Yup! You might want to warm it a little bit to get the chemicals to dissolve better, but they will go into solution sooner or later, but warming does help.

Grif · Jun 21, 2016

You beat me, JW ;-) This thread is sort of Deja Vu all over again. Same basic threads about sodium nitrate/nitrite and dilutions over on the charcuterie forums. (curing meat).

JW PHOTO · Jun 21, 2016

Grif said:
You beat me, JW ;-) This thread is sort of Deja Vu all over again. Same basic threads about sodium nitrate/nitrite and dilutions over on the charcuterie forums. (curing meat).

I like curing meat(smoking) and smoking fish too! I've always been leery of Salt Peter's (Potassium nitrate (KNO3)) side effects.............if you know what I mean?

DarkroomExperimente · Jun 21, 2016

why not mix a fresh batch for your normal developing...

save the messed up developer....shoot a couple test rolls of the same subject and develop in normal developer & your extra S.S. batch to see what happens

Gerald C Koch · Jun 21, 2016

michael_r said:
Be sure you used sulfite, not sulfate, first of all.

The most likely effect of the extra sulfite could perhaps be slightly finer grain with an offset in emulsion speed and/or sharpness.

The important thing is that what you made isn't D-76. START OVER, AND PLEASE LOSE THE BEER WHEN MIXING/HANDLING CHEMICALS.

+10,000

Fortunately you were mixing something fairly innocuous and not say dichromate bleach.

Alan Johnson · Jun 21, 2016

LFA Mason, "Photographic Processing Chemistry" p122:
"....effect of sulphite concentration.....at very high concentrations,all developers showed reduced activity, probably due to the very high salt content, resulting in less swelling of the gelatin and hence slower diffusion."

Jim Noel · Jun 21, 2016

zanxion72 said:
I had lots of fun last weekend with friends and beer and late yesterday while mixing some D76 I have realized that I have used 150 gr of Sodium Sulfate instead of 100 to make 1 lt (it took quite a lot to dissolve that extra Sodium Sulfate, but that beer effect...).
Should I discard it and mix new? Can it be used at 1:1? What would be the effect of the overdose of ss to the recipe?

If you used "sodium sulfate" throw it away.
If you used sodium sulfite your biggest danger is particles ending up on the film. Cool the mix to about 60-65 degrees and filter out the sulfite sludge and it should cause you no problem.

Grif · Jun 21, 2016

JW PHOTO said:
I like curing meat(smoking) and smoking fish too! I've always been leery of Salt Peter's (Potassium nitrate (KNO3)) side effects.............if you know what I mean?

;-)

Most of the threads are of the "it's a chemical",,, I'd rather risk botulism than use chemicals sorts of conversations. But dark room folks are already well marinaded in various chemicals... (groan).

Gerald C Koch · Jun 21, 2016

I am reminded of the story "The Lady Who Put Salt In Her Coffee" by Lucretia P. Hale. After going all around town asking people how to get the salt out of the coffee finally someone says just make another pot. Toss the bad batch and just make another. The cost of the chemicals involved are not that expensive.

Grif · Jun 21, 2016

Gerald C Koch said:
I am reminded of the story "The Lady Who Put Salt In Her Coffee" by Lucretia P. Hale. After going all around town asking people how to get the salt out of the coffee finally someone says just make another pot. Toss the bad batch and just make another. The cost of the chemicals involved are not that expensive.

Like my TeeShirt says,,, "...it's a bit more compicated than that". Production shop? 100% pitch it out. But,,, this is a hobby, and messing with formulas and mixing products is part of the whole enjoyment,,, at least for a sub-population of us. I've finally added one of the unmentionable cameras justified mostly by cost. A week vacation, 20 rolls of Provera shipping processing and scanning for mostly family snaps. So in my mind, the cost is a smaller part of the justification for the whole analog hobby thing

Gerald C Koch · Jun 21, 2016

Grif said:
Like my TeeShirt says,,, "...it's a bit more compicated than that". Production shop? 100% pitch it out. But,,, this is a hobby, and messing with formulas and mixing products is part of the whole enjoyment,,, at least for a sub-population of us. I've finally added one of the unmentionable cameras justified mostly by cost. A week vacation, 20 rolls of Provera shipping processing and scanning for mostly family snaps. So in my mind, the cost is a smaller part of the justification for the whole analog hobby thing

I don't understand. What is wrong with the perfectly logical decision to toss the bad batch and mix fresh?

zanxion72 · Jun 21, 2016

Tossed! I will mix fresh 100% D-76 later today. It is 41 degC today and that makes things just as hard as having lots of beer again

Grif · Jun 21, 2016

Sorry if I implied there was something wrong with tossing it. Just saying, as a hobby, some folks would have gone through the exercise of fixing it, not so much to save money, but as part of the whole hobby darkroom process thing.

41C 105F??? Yikes!

zanxion72 · Jun 21, 2016

I thought of trying it just to see what it gives, but the next roll in the line is a Panatomic-X and no such mistakes can be afforded.

Down Under · Jun 21, 2016

I'm with JW on this. Mix up a half batch of D-76 less the sulfIte (if you used sulfAte, toss the lot), and combine it with your first batch. It will work just fine.

Save your Panatomic-X for another session. Develop a test roll, or part of a test roll, in the mix.

As for the beer, there's no need for you to be a "wowser" (it's Aussie slang) about it - drink beer when you drink beer, and mix developers when you mix developers. Don't combine the two, and all will be well. The same goes for darkroom sessions, altho' I find a (small) glass of good Tasmanian red wine half way thru an all night session of printing, works wonders for my creative instincts. One and only one...

JD in Hobart.

Grif · Jun 22, 2016

Brings back memories. Panatomic-X and microdol 1:3 oneshot ASA 25, don't remember development times.

Alan Johnson · Jun 22, 2016

Your homebrew with 1.5 x sulfite was rather like a tropical developer, which typically contains excess sulfate to stop the emulsion swelling.
If Athens gets any warmer, could try it again.

Gerald C Koch · Jun 22, 2016

The problem with trying to fix the bad batch is that metol is not readily soluble in sulfite solutions. Remember the mixing directions for this developer. You would have to heat the solution and do a lot of stirring. In the end you have learned what?

Down Under · Jul 6, 2016

Just returned to this thread to followup on it. Gerald, you have me on the metol. After a half century of mixing up brews (remember Kodak DK-60a? I often mixed my own at home as a teenager), I should have remembered this, but I didn't.Not nearly enough good Tassie red wine of late, I fear. It has been a cold,cold winter down here this year.

Of course the OP could have mixed up a half batch with just a generous pinch of the sodsulf, yes? And then mixed the two together? It does make sense to me. I did, however, fail elementary chemistry in high school.

The message, Gerald, is probably there are times when one is best tipping stuff down the sink and starting again. Will I get my chemistry mark for this conclusion?

Patrick Robert James · Jul 6, 2016

You could have just made another 500ml but omit the Sulfite, everything would have gone into solution no problem, then mixed it with what you already have.

I don't get some of the "only one way to do it" attitudes here sometimes. The OP made an easily fixable mistake. No need to waste the chemistry.

Gerald C Koch · Jul 7, 2016

What would you learn from the attempt to fix the error? The OP knows what he did wrong and has taken his lashes with a wet noodle.

Homebrew D-76 with accidentally 1.5 times the amount of S. Sulfite

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