Homebrew C-41: Orange Too Dense

[Jeremy]

I'm developing my own C-41 using a PhotoTherm film processor. I developed my first 4 rolls with the Arista C-41 kit (and realized that it wasn't made to be used one-shot) and those came out great. I mixed up my own chemicals (checking pH and everything) and they look fantastic except for the fact that the orange layer is waaaay too dense which is throwing everything else off. I'm 99% sure my stabilizer and fix are fine which just leaves the bleach and the developer. Can anyone point me towards which of these two steps is most likely the culprit?

I'm also leaning towards buying the Kodak flexicolor stock solutions in bulk for the fix and bleach (especially if the bleach is my culprit) and hopefully mixing up my own developer.

 

[jd callow]

in the past i have had this happen, when the dev was too strong and or the temp to high. It was always the dev. I also had it with OD 800 and 1000iso films, but that was the film.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Are you using a separate bleach and fix, or a blix? The overall density of the film might be due to inadequate bleaching, which is common, very common when using blix solutions for C-41.

 

[Nick Zentena]

If you're worried about the bleach can't you just rebleach etc?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Too orange suggests to me the bleach as well. Bad developer often gives a gray color to the film or just adds or subtracts density. Then it would be too dense or too thin.

Rebleach for about 10' at 100F then wash and fix.

Another problem could be that the bleach is too strong and going directly from the developer to the bleach will cause an orange fog to form. This will happen instantly for example if you use a ferricyanide bleach.

With a ferricyanide bleach step you need a clearing stop bath with acetic acid and sodium sulfite, then you need a wash before going into ferricyanide or other strong bleaches.

PE

 

[Jeremy]

Another problem could be that the bleach is too strong and going directly from the developer to the bleach will cause an orange fog to form. This will happen instantly for example if you use a ferricyanide bleach.
With a ferricyanide bleach step you need a clearing stop bath with acetic acid and sodium sulfite, then you need a wash before going into ferricyanide or other strong bleaches.
PE

Ron, I think you've nailed it! I am using a ferricyanide bleach without a stop bath between the developer and the bleach. First off let me say that if this is the problem then I can easily solve it by going to the bulk kodak fix and bleach (I'm not using blix, but a separate fix and bleach). I'll stick with the developer I'm using now (and hopefully it's not that as I pay pennies on the dollar to mix it myself) and pick up a bottle of the Kodak Flexicolor Bleach to try out. The PhotoTherm isn't setup to do a clearing stop bath between the developer and bleach, but I can see if this is possible. If I switch to the Flexicolor bleach (which I believe to be non-ferri) then will I still need a clearing stop bath?

 

[Photo Engineer]

You can use a 2% acetic acid stop after the developer with about 10g/l of sodium sulfite in it. Then use a 2' wash before the ferricyanide bleach.

I'm afraid that those negatives are probably ruined. You see, the carryover of developer into ferricyanide will immediately oxidize it and it forms dye. The stop acidifies the coating and the sulfite acts as a scavenger for developer.

PE

 

[Jeremy]

I'm afraid that those negatives are probably ruined. You see, the carryover of developer into ferricyanide will immediately oxidize it and it forms dye. The stop acidifies the coating and the sulfite acts as a scavenger for developer.

PE

Ron, no worries on that as I had test rolls to run through my home brew specifically due to problems like this. Can you suggest any bleach formulas I could make or commercial bleach I could buy which would NOT need a clearing bath after the developer (and I am on a student budget, but looking at the Flexicolor chemicals, those don't seem out of my price range at all)? It seems to add another chemical to my PhotoTherm would necessitate a new PC board which would cost me more than I paid for the entire processor.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Mix Kodak Flexicolor bleach III with Flexicolor RA fix 1:1 and use as is. That is as close to a blix as you are going to get. I have no idea how well this will work or how long it will last. I suggest a time of at least 10' at 100F to blix with this, as a starting point.

And, test it first. I have not, but knowing the chemictry and what will work, that is close. I can do better, but I would have to run a lot of tests to do better with positive assurances.

PE

 

[Jeremy]

And, test it first. I have not, but knowing the chemictry and what will work, that is close. I can do better, but I would have to run a lot of tests to do better with positive assurances.

PE

Is a blix the only way to not have a clearing bath after the developer? My PhotoTherm is set-up for a separate bleach and fix so I planned on using them after reading the other thread on separate fix/bleach vs. blix.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, I suggest develop, bleach, wash, fix, wash, stabilze.

If you get a blix to work it would be develop, blix, wash, stabilze.

The only time you need a clearing bath is if the bleach or blix uses ferricyanide, permanganate, dichromate or similar strong oxidants.

PE

 

[alanrockwood]

Is a blix the only way to not have a clearing bath after the developer? My PhotoTherm is set-up for a separate bleach and fix so I planned on using them after reading the other thread on separate fix/bleach vs. blix.

Jeremy,

Have you tried contacting PhotoTherm? They might be able to help you out.

Also, you could have PhotoTherm burn you a new chip with a different program... costs money though.

 

[Jeremy]

Jeremy,

Have you tried contacting PhotoTherm? They might be able to help you out.

Also, you could have PhotoTherm burn you a new chip with a different program... costs money though.

Alan, I've actually decided to try and use the RA Bleach that is kept in bulk up at school as there isn't a wash cycle that I could put in stop b/w. I've thought about having PhotoTherm burn me a new chip, but I find problem solving part of the fun! And it really helps me learn more about the processes.