Home replacement for photoflo

brofkand · Aug 3, 2009

Considering how long a bottle of Photo-Flo lasts, how often (and how much of) does Kodak make the stuff?

Seems like a master batch would be good for 10 years or more of retail sales. I'd bet a good portion of Photo-Flo goes to communal darkrooms and school darkrooms. My darkroom tech at school pours out the photo-flo every week and makes more, no doubt to the bottle's specs.

BetterSense · Aug 3, 2009

I'm still trying to figure out exactly how much to use. I always seem to get a faint scum at least somewhere on my negatives. It wipes right off but it's annoying. I've been using only 1mL/L in deionized water but it still foams when I pour it.

Photo Engineer · Aug 3, 2009

Dilution for Photo Flo 200 is 1:200. Foaming is normal.

PE

kompressor · Aug 3, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
Dilution for Photo Flo 200 is 1:200. Foaming is normal.

PE

What about us who have it in 500 or 600ml bottles ?

Still 1:200 dillution?

Photo Engineer · Aug 3, 2009

Photo Flo 200 is diluted as it says on the bottle.... 1:200

What does the size of the bottle have to do with dilution? That is the way it is used.

Photo Flo 600 is diluted 1:600 and Photo Flo 1200 is diluted 1:1200.

PE

Anscojohn · Aug 3, 2009

Once, in a pinch, I used a few drops from a plastic squeeze bottle of eyeglass cleaner. It worked. Dunno about any long term effects, though.

bdial · Aug 3, 2009

I've never had good luck with the "couple of drops in the developing tank of water method". My current method which works very well, is to take a 1 gallon jug of distilled water, and add 1/200 of a gallon (18.9 ml) of photoflo to it then agitate it enough to mix it all up. Final step is to take a sharpy and write "photoflo" on the jug. Works good.

brofkand · Aug 3, 2009

bdial:

When do you throw it out and re-mix? I've read photoflo never "exhausts"...I guess you make more when enough of it has been taken out of the bottle by the film?

I've never used Photo-Flo (except in school). I notice my negatives dry faster when I used it at school, but I don't have any problems with spotting when I do film at home. Should I use Photo-Flo, even though I don't have any spotting? What I mean is will it make the film more stable or more archival, or do you only need it if you have problems with spotting?

Don Dudenbostel · Aug 3, 2009

Years ago there were quick dry agents that were nothing more than denatured alcohol. I also used 90% isopropyl alcohol.

If you try this experiment with a film clip. film has changed in the past forty years.

removed account4 · Aug 3, 2009

don, do you think vodka could be used for this ?
i'm thinking popov ( read cheap rot gut ) might have an 11th use

Photo Engineer · Aug 3, 2009

Guys;

Alcohol was used as a DRYING AGENT not a WETTING AGENT. These two are unrelated functions.

You treat with a wetting agent or surfactant to prevent water spots from minerals and contaminants in water. You use alcohol to promote rapid drying.

There is some overlap in function, but they are not identical.

PE

removed account4 · Aug 3, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
Guys;

Alcohol was used as a DRYING AGENT not a WETTING AGENT. These two are unrelated functions.

You treat with a wetting agent or surfactant to prevent water spots from minerals and contaminants in water. You use alcohol to promote rapid drying.

There is some overlap in function, but they are not identical.

PE

thanks PE

i guess it isn't another mysterious use afterall!

Wade D · Aug 4, 2009

After reading all of this I'd better get some real Photoflo. The 1st few rolls I've done since getting back into the darkroom smell lemony fresh because of the dish soap.

bdial · Aug 4, 2009

Brofkand,
Generally I use it one-shot, so I dump what I've used, that way there is no accumulation of any sort of contamination in the jug. Once the jug is empty it goes in the plastics recycle bin, and I start a new one.
As you say, it helps the film dry a bit faster, but the reason for using it is to avoid water spots. So far as I know it does nothing for the longevity. If water spots aren't a problem, there is no particular need to use it, faster drying does help for avoiding dust problems though.

markbarendt · Aug 15, 2009

I've been mixing up Photoflo one shot, using 1.25 ml in distilled water for a 250ml batch, I hang the long rolls to dry and 8 out of 10 are getting slimy drips at the bottom. What am I doing wrong?

brofkand · Aug 15, 2009

Mark: I'd guess you're not rinsing fully before you use photo-flo. I've noticed fix can feel kinda slimy.

The photo-flo is picking up the residual fix and it's dripping off.

That's just a guess. Someone else will probably know for sure.

markbarendt · Aug 15, 2009

brofkand said:
Mark: I'd guess you're not rinsing fully before you use photo-flo. I've noticed fix can feel kinda slimy.

The photo-flo is picking up the residual fix and it's dripping off.

That's just a guess. Someone else will probably know for sure.

I'll try washing more.

Right now I'm doing 5-rinses; 1-30 second, 2-60 second, 1-2-min, and a final 15 second rinse.

MattKing · Aug 15, 2009

Mark:

Are you using Hypo Clearing Agent or something similar before your wash?

If not, this is a very short wash sequence.

Matt

P.S. Actually, it is somewhat short even if you are using Hypo Clearing Agent.

BetterSense · Aug 15, 2009

I solved all my photoflo problems recently. I always had the hardest time getting a dilution that seemed to do anything, and didn't leave (fairly benign) marks on my film occasionally. I'm not sure if it's because I use 18 megaohm ultrapure water or what, but the stuff foams too and little bubbles get caught in the sprocket holes. I think I finally have the optimum dilution nailed down. I don't have any problems and get perfectly clean negatives at 0% photoflo, by volume. My bottle should last a long time this way too.

Photo Engineer · Aug 15, 2009

Bubbles form in sprocket holes and elsewhere and they burst and vanish as the film dries. This is normal.

PE

pnance · Aug 16, 2009

Check the archives: (there was a url link here which no longer exists) the formula listed seems to work as Photo-Flo, or at least I can't tell the difference.

Paul

markbarendt · Aug 16, 2009

MattKing said:
Mark:

Are you using Hypo Clearing Agent or something similar before your wash?

If not, this is a very short wash sequence.

Matt

P.S. Actually, it is somewhat short even if you are using Hypo Clearing Agent.

I have not used hypo clearing agents yet. I do have some so I'll add that to my process.

I think I'll bump my wash to ten fill and dump cycles over ten minutes.

Thanks Matt

Mark

J. Miller Adam · Aug 17, 2009

Photo-Flo dilution & nasty scum

I'm a photography teacher and for years I've used 5 gallon tanks for the stock solutions for all the classroom chemicals. I've become used to checking the state of my stock photo-Flo regularly, because it tends to develop scummy bits floating in it that will dry very permanently on the negs. This been the case for years now. Not a big problem, but no one else seems to have this issue. Any thoughts why? [note: this is a high school photo lab, and the kids could be putting ANYTHING into the wrong tanks, but being teenagers, they certainly can't have been doing it consistently for several years...]

Also, in a workshop I took with John Sexton several years ago, he told us that 1:600 is really the correct dilution for Photo-Flo, and that he had this from a source at Kodak. Makes it last even longer....

Photo Engineer · Aug 17, 2009

There are 3 Photo Flo formulas out there. Photo Flo 200, Photo Flo 600 and Photo Flo 1200. This numeric sequence relates to the dilution used in making up a working solution. The 600 and 1200 are made with Ethylene Glycol which is more toxic than the Propylene Glycol used in 200 and the latter is therefore preferred for consumer use.

In open tanks or tanks with floating lids, the water can evaporate and leave scum at the edges just as you get crud from evaporation of developer or fixer. The difference is that this scum is a goo. Scrape it off with a flat object and then skim it out of the solution with a coffee filter. This should work. But, Photo Flo can develop bacterial and fungal growths and that cannot be dismissed in your case. If it is a fungal or bacterial growth, the solution has gone bad and should be discarded.

PE

Stock Dektol · Aug 18, 2009

Photo-flo is glorified dish soap. Technically, you could just use soap and distilled water.

Home replacement for photoflo

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