Home Made BTSZ tubes question

Absinthe · Feb 24, 2008

With all the talk of BTZS tubes and my lack of workspace, I have decided to give it a shot. However, first trip to my friendly neighborhood Lowes yields no ABS.

Has anyone had good luck with any other materials? Perhaps PCV, though I question its lighttightness.

-- B

jeroldharter · Feb 24, 2008

It is "BTZS", not "BTSZ."

It stands for Beyond The Zone System.

Here is a link:

http://btzs.org/

Although the price at the View Camera Store seems expensive, the tubes are still worth the price. The amount of labor to file the edges of each tube so you don't scratch the film must be a lot. The tubes are good quality and just the right size. I am assuming you are looking at 4x5 tubes.

I use the BTZS tubes for developing and then place the open tubes in a tray of stop bath with the safe light on until each tube has finished developing. Then I pull each sheet of film out of the six (or fewer) tubes and place them in a compartment of a slosher in an 11x14 tray of fixer. Then I turn the room lights on to finish the fixing. Then I move the slosher to a tray of PermaWash. Then I transfer the film to the film washer. Sounds laborious but it works well and eliminates the problem of removing the pink anti-halation layer which is difficult to do if you do all steps of processing in the tubes.

Tom Hoskinson · Feb 24, 2008

Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene (ABS) Tubing

Absinthe said:
With all the talk of BTSZ tubes and my lack of workspace, I have decided to give it a shot. However, first trip to my friendly neighborhood Lowes yields no ABS.

Has anyone had good luck with any other materials? Perhaps PCV, though I question its lighttightness.

-- B

Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene (ABS) Tubing

ABS pipe (tubing) is Easy to find in Southern California. I bought mine at Orchard Hardware Supply in the plumbing section.

Try GOOGLING ABS Plumbing supplies

Absinthe · Feb 24, 2008

Oops, my typing sucks, yes, BTZS, I am currently working through that particular book, though I have seen no mention of the tubes in there, but I have seen the $119 version on View Camera.

I just thought it might be a fun project to try my own at least one.

But I'll be d@#%ed if I can find ABS locally... Perhaps it has gone out of code here?

donbga · Feb 25, 2008

Absinthe said:
Oops, my typing sucks, yes, BTZS, I am currently working through that particular book, though I have seen no mention of the tubes in there, but I have seen the $119 version on View Camera.

I just thought it might be a fun project to try my own at least one.

But I'll be d@#%ed if I can find ABS locally... Perhaps it has gone out of code here?

If you think about for a moment, paying the $119 is a good deal as it is unlikely you can come close to producing tubes nearly as good and convenient and that includes the tray for rolling the tubes.

Absinthe · Feb 25, 2008

From a cost-effectiveness point of view I don't disagree with you, but seldom has the DIY approach been merely for the reasons of cost effectiveness aspect.

No doubt, expecially if I like the tybe concept, I will probably purchase the professional made ones.

Just driving me crazy now that ABS seems to be a difficult thing to find for some weird reason :S

donbga · Feb 25, 2008

Absinthe said:
From a cost-effectiveness point of view I don't disagree with you, but seldom has the DIY approach been merely for the reasons of cost effectiveness aspect.

No doubt, expecially if I like the tybe concept, I will probably purchase the professional made ones.

Just driving me crazy now that ABS seems to be a difficult thing to find for some weird reason :S

Well I have a set and they work great. I almost got a set of 8x10 tubes for free!.

jeroldharter · Feb 25, 2008

Absinthe said:
From a cost-effectiveness point of view I don't disagree with you, but seldom has the DIY approach been merely for the reasons of cost effectiveness aspect.

No doubt, expecially if I like the tybe concept, I will probably purchase the professional made ones.

Just driving me crazy now that ABS seems to be a difficult thing to find for some weird reason :S

I agree about the DIY mentality. Sometimes it is just fun to try. However, the work of filing down the edges of each tube properly so that you do not scratch the film is for someone other than me.

I think that ABS tubing is hard to find because it is not so good for plumbing as PVC and there might have been some lawsuits. I could find "fittings" but no actual pipe.

If you do make your own, don't forget that you need two caps for each tube.

eric · Feb 25, 2008

Absinthe said:
With all the talk of BTZS tubes and my lack of workspace, I have decided to give it a shot. However, first trip to my friendly neighborhood Lowes yields no ABS.

Has anyone had good luck with any other materials? Perhaps PCV, though I question its lighttightness.

-- B

Are you thinking 4x5 or 8x10s?

I have 6 8x10 welding rod tubes I'm not using. PM me if you are looking for 8x10 tubes. I've used them with 8x10 but I think I prefer doing 8x10's in trays. I have 4x5 BTZS tubes though that I like.

Absinthe · Feb 25, 2008

Thanks eric, I am going to do 4x5

rwyoung · Feb 25, 2008

You can use the PVC tubes but you should get the gray PVC and plan on working dark to load them (same as the "real ones") and then don't switch on the room lights, work with a safelight. The gray PVC is relatively lightproof. I did this for a while and it seemed OK. Keep in mind my use of the weasel words "seemed OK". Your mileage may vary. Sanding PVC isn't tough and I had a set of three tubes in an evening. Just sanding with finer and finer ending with a 600 grit wet-dry. Probably did it watching the History Channel or something.

Good luck.

resummerfield · Feb 25, 2008

ABS is much more common in the western US, and sometimes impossible to find in the East. Anything water-tight will work, such as PVC. ABS works best because it is black and light-tight. If you use PVC, get the grey type as rwyoung suggests. It is commonly used as electrical conduit and found at electrical distributors.

However, you will be much more satisfied with the real BTZS tubes from the View Camera Store, as jeroldharter mentioned.

George Collier · Feb 25, 2008

Lowes in the Mid-Atlantic area carries ABS (it's used primarily for drainage, not supply).

One question for someone with the real BTZS tubes:
Exactly (as close as you can measure) how long are the tubes for 4x5? I have some homemades that work well (for stand and semi-stand), but occasionally produce surge. I wonder if they are long enough. Mine are about 1/8in longer than the 5in length of film, then the caps.

jeroldharter · Feb 25, 2008

George Collier said:
One question for someone with the real BTZS tubes:
Exactly (as close as you can measure) how long are the tubes for 4x5? I have some homemades that work well (for stand and semi-stand), but occasionally produce surge. I wonder if they are long enough. Mine are about 1/8in longer than the 5in length of film, then the caps.

The BTZS tubes are:

6 1/8 inches long
1 7/8 inches in diameter

The BTZS caps are:

3 3/16 inches long
1 7/8 inches in diameter

Absinthe · Feb 25, 2008

Is that ID or OD

mark · Feb 25, 2008

Look here

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I have a set for 5x7 that I made. I found a Unicolor Drum to be more convenient for my purposes, but there was nothing wrong with the tubes once I figured out how to use them.

jeroldharter · Feb 25, 2008

Absinthe said:
Is that ID or OD

Good point. OD. The walls are relatively thin.

Note in the Donald Miller link, that you want the cap to be as long as the tube if you do stand/Semi-stand development. That requires a little more chemistry. The BTZS caps are not long enough for stand development.

I think the fiberglass screen business is too fussy and prefer the slosher.

Eric Mac · Feb 25, 2008

Caps

I made a set of tubes from pvc I believe. Don't make the mistake I made- use the flat caps and not the rounded ones.

Eric

noseoil · Feb 25, 2008

Tubes

1 1/2" ABS tubing will not pass light. Try Home Delay instead, or perhaps a local plumbing supplier. tim

fhovie · Feb 26, 2008

I made 4 like the ones shown above in an afternoon and they have served me well for years. I can't imagine why I would buy tubes that are so quick, cheap and easy to make unless I just didn't have the time.

philsweeney · Feb 27, 2008

http://mysite.verizon.net/shipale/constr.html

I have miter box saw and can cut a tube in 5 seconds

Absinthe · Feb 27, 2008

So, you don't put the threaded pieces on, just the coupler for a friction fit? Does that leak? Funny thing, I bought BTZS, but I don't see any reference to the tubes, just tray processing. I must have an older version of the book.

rwyoung · Feb 27, 2008

Mine are a lot like Phil's. One end cap glued on. The other friction fitted. After I first made them I did a "dry" run to see if there was leakage. Close the tube, dry on the inside and did the roll-and-bob for probably 5 minutes (been a few years). Dry off the outside and open. No penetration.

That said, I haven't used them since I switched to a Jobo. And I didn't re-test them prior to the switch after about a year of service. It is possible that they could have started to leak.

Absinthe · Feb 27, 2008

So you don't actually use them anymore? Just the Jobo?
As I said, apparently the version of BTZS I have doesn't even mention them, are there specific lengths and such mentionned in Phil's plans? Are they designed to put the film in longways or shortways?

Roger Thoms · May 25, 2008

Put the film in the tub length wise, if you put it in shortways it will overlap and cause uneven development. If I recall my copy of Beyond the Zone System has measurements for make your own tubes in the appendix. I don't have the book handy but I think it is the 3rd addition.
Roger

Home Made BTSZ tubes question

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