Home developing E6 - up to what point is it worth it?

rayonline_nz · Nov 11, 2019

Hi all

I found out a place where they can send E6 chemistry to New Zealand. Given over here they charge $20US equiv to process one roll of slide film. I purchase my film from the USA and send back to the USA for developing.

The E6 chemistry are in liquid form so that would push up the delivery charges. $66US for 1 quart of E6 developing kit, $87US if I purchase 2 kits and $107US if I purchase 3. So, basically it says 8 rolls max but people have said to have gotten 20 rolls out of 1 kit. If I do develop 20 rolls, compared to a USA lab I save 50%, instead of $150US at the lab, it would cost me $75US. If I bought 3 kits, so instead of doing 3 shipments to the USA, that's 60 rolls. Instead of $930US approx it is about $$310US doing myself. For me if I purchase 3 kits in advance, that is 20 rolls a year, a saving of $200US PA.

I've also heard that the home developing kits are not on the same quality levels as commercials labs ....

Your thoughts? Cheers.

Edit - the film photography project ships to NZ, the E6 kit cost $32USD with the above delivery charges.

mshchem · Nov 11, 2019

I love E6. It's such fun. I just paid 200 USD for a made in EU Fuji Pro6 5 liter kit. Shipping was another 20 bucks. Positives scan so easily and nothing beats a nice slide show.

rayonline_nz · Nov 11, 2019

Does anyone know with these DIY colour chemistry, what is the stamped expiry date approx from purchase date? If I buy a kit today, what is the expiry date on the package generally?

Ariston · Nov 11, 2019

rayonline_nz said:
Does anyone know with these DIY colour chemistry, what is the stamped expiry date approx from purchase date? If I buy a kit today, what is the expiry date on the package generally?

I had my first kit in the US and forgot to look. If you wait until you have enough rolls to exhaust the chemistry, it won't matter. That's what I did because I was worried about the same thing.

Prest_400 · Nov 11, 2019

I am in a camera club and the coordinator purchased 2 Tetenal 3 bath kits, one was jused last spring and another will be soon. I personally don't shoot that much slide, and doing a development pool has been fantastic. However, just checked those kits are 2.5l and can develop till 30 rolls; In their instructions they have processing time compensation tables for each range or Rolls developed.
I basically ignored there were 1L kits because, well, in EU the main dealers only list larger kits (Tetnal 2.5L; Fuji 5L). Another note is that a 1L kit may amount to 10-12 rolls instead of 30 which is overkill for myself, shooting only 5-10 rolls a season and E6 film is expensive but beautiful.

Preferrably 6 bath kits are the full process and would be the maximum quality, ie. equal to the labs. Fuji sells that kit IIRC. 3 bath kits may be a compromise specially on the Blix, what I know so far is gathered from discussions and insights around here and specially PE's knowledge.

At the end of the day it's about the beauty of transparency...

Rudeofus · Nov 11, 2019

rayonline_nz said:
Does anyone know with these DIY colour chemistry, what is the stamped expiry date approx from purchase date? If I buy a kit today, what is the expiry date on the package generally?

I assume you refer to kits not made by Fuji&Kodak as "DIX color chemistry". I can give you some reference for the Tetenal kit and will then make some generalizations to other kits. There are three important failure modes to look out for:

Oxidation of FD concentrate: this affects all E-6 kits across the range. Activity will not suddenly drop off a cliff, but will slowly deteriorate. The FD concentrate will show a white powder deposit and the liquid will take on a darker brown over time. Slides will appear darker after about 6-9 months. This can be counteracted by increasing FD time in 0:15 increments. After more than a year stronger corrections may become necessary.
Oxidation of the one CD concentrate which contains the color developer ingredient: this may lead to weaker blacks and possible color crossover, which can be corrected in digital postprocessing, but of course not for projected slides. CD deterioration is visible through its color change, and usually becomes an issue after FD has started going bad, so I wouldn't worry much about it unless you buy components separately.
Sulfurization of BLIX concentrate which contains the Ammonium Thiosulfate: this is particularly likely to happen in BLIX kits mixed from two BLIX components. I have seen this happening with Tetenal's kits after about 6-9 months. This happens, because the Ammonium Thiosulfate containing concentrate is kept acidic, which gives it the same poor concentrate shelf life as acidic B&W fixer. There are liquid E-6 kits with three BLIX concentrates, which avoid this issue. The issue is also avoided in kits, which use separate bleach and fixer.

One way of extending concentrate shelf life of opened bottles is inert gas. This needs to be applied to all developer concentrates, and to the BLIX concentrate with the Ammonium Thiosulfate.

mshchem · Nov 11, 2019

Rudeofus said:
I assume you refer to kits not made by Fuji&Kodak as "DIX color chemistry". I can give you some reference for the Tetenal kit and will then make some generalizations to other kits. There are three important failure modes to look out for:

Oxidation of FD concentrate: this affects all E-6 kits across the range. Activity will not suddenly drop off a cliff, but will slowly deteriorate. The FD concentrate will show a white powder deposit and the liquid will take on a darker brown over time. Slides will appear darker after about 6-9 months. This can be counteracted by increasing FD time in 0:15 increments. After more than a year stronger corrections may become necessary.

Oxidation of the one CD concentrate which contains the color developer ingredient: this may lead to weaker blacks and possible color crossover, which can be corrected in digital postprocessing, but of course not for projected slides. CD deterioration is visible through its color change, and usually becomes an issue after FD has started going bad, so I wouldn't worry much about it unless you buy components separately.

Sulfurization of BLIX concentrate which contains the Ammonium Thiosulfate: this is particularly likely to happen in BLIX kits mixed from two BLIX components. I have seen this happening with Tetenal's kits after about 6-9 months. This happens, because the Ammonium Thiosulfate containing concentrate is kept acidic, which gives it the same poor concentrate shelf life as acidic B&W fixer. There are liquid E-6 kits with three BLIX concentrates, which avoid this issue. The issue is also avoided in kits, which use separate bleach and fixer.

One way of extending concentrate shelf life of opened bottles is inert gas. This needs to be applied to all developer concentrates, and to the BLIX concentrate with the Ammonium Thiosulfate.

This is a great summary. You can divide liquids, IF you have properly sized bottles, of HDPE or PP, and most importantly, you blanket the ullage (empty space above the liquid ) with inert gas. Any oxygen will kill developers, and oxygen destroys fixer. I found a divided Tetenal kit in my darkroom, that I had forgotten about. It was over 5 years since I had split. I had to substitute Ilford Rapid fix for the fix part of the blix, because the Tetenal fix had turned to sulfur.
It worked fine. The first developer was at I would guess 90% I got transparencies that looked about 1/3rd stop underdeveloped, very saturated beautiful.
Don't do this! I was experimenting. It's high school chemistry. No oxygen, use within a year. And don't try to get 6 to 8 rolls per liter. The capacity of amateur kits assumes you can live with substandard results.

rayonline_nz · Nov 11, 2019

Thanks for the above

If I am doing 6-8 rolls, I was told someone had the C41 kit and the packaging said max 8 rolls but he did 18 rolls and still going (!). Well for 8 rolls it would be the same cost of me sending it to the USA lab and they use the proper chemistry. As for the inert gas etc .. too much stuff for me as a hobbyist. Yes, I was thinking they go off in a few weeks to a few months so my initial thought was to collect up and binge process in a week or two and then dump.

As for the Tetenal kit or the Fuji kit no chance getting that in NZ.

This is the E6 kit I am able to get in NZ
https://filmphotographystore.com/co...m-supplies-fpp-rapid-e6-slide-development-kit

mshchem · Nov 11, 2019

rayonline_nz said:
Thanks for the above

If I am doing 6-8 rolls, I was told someone had the C41 kit and the packaging said max 8 rolls but he did 18 rolls and still going (!). Well for 8 rolls it would be the same cost of me sending it to the USA lab and they use the proper chemistry. As for the inert gas etc .. too much stuff for me as a hobbyist. Yes, I was thinking they go off in a few weeks to a few months so my initial thought was to collect up and binge process in a week or two and then dump.

As for the Tetenal kit or the Fuji kit no chance getting that in NZ.

This is the E6 kit I am able to get in NZ
https://filmphotographystore.com/co...m-supplies-fpp-rapid-e6-slide-development-kit

There's not a thing wrong with these kits. There's no final rinse. The final rinse is a wetting agent and biocide. People will freak out when I say this but you can use a wetting agent in distilled or purified water. As far as inert gas, butane or propane will work.
If you buy a 1 liter kit, make up the solutions, don't split, and keep the bottle absolutely full, keep at 18 to 25 C it will last quite a while. If you are after cost savings it may not be worth it. But E6 is so fun. This product seems to be sold by Freestyle in the US under the Arista brand. The other thing with slide film, you really need precise temperature control. Especially the 1st developer, time, temperature and agitation needs to be consistent.
You will get results, even if you push the capacity. But especially with slides, over using the chemistry leads to inconsistent results.

rayonline_nz · Nov 11, 2019

mshchem said:
There's not a thing wrong with these kits. There's no final rinse. The final rinse is a wetting agent and biocide. People will freak out when I say this but you can use a wetting agent in distilled or purified water. As far as inert gas, butane or propane will work.
If you buy a 1 liter kit, make up the solutions, don't split, and keep the bottle absolutely full, keep at 18 to 25 C it will last quite a while. If you are after cost savings it may not be worth it. But E6 is so fun. This product seems to be sold by Freestyle in the US under the Arista brand. The other thing with slide film, you really need precise temperature control. Especially the 1st developer, time, temperature and agitation needs to be consistent.
You will get results, even if you push the capacity. But especially with slides, over using the chemistry leads to inconsistent results.

Thanks. Yes it is down to cost savings. At the moment the local lab charges me equiv of $20US to process one roll of slide film, so I batch it up and send it to the USA once a year so I don't have to pay multiple freights to the USA. So if I were to DIY at home again I would batch it up. For any number of rolls sending to and back from the USA is probably gonna cost me $50US in all honesty on top of the processing costs.

Freestyle and B&H etc .. won't send any color chemistry outside of the USA due to it being ORM-D. I have also wrote an email to Freestyle to double check.

Nodda Duma · Nov 11, 2019

You can review the color photos I’ve posted here over the past several months. They were all developed at home, and the E6 images were all developed from the same batch of Arista E-6 kit (half of a 1-gallon kit)

mshchem · Nov 11, 2019

Nodda Duma said:
You can review the color photos I’ve posted here over the past several months. They were all developed at home, and the E6 images were all developed from the same batch of Arista E-6 kit (half of a 1-gallon kit)

Does your kit come with final rinse /stabilizer?
I'm not an expert, but I think the Arista, Tetenal formulations are the same as the Kodak Hobby Pac kits that were sold for years. I'm sure people will argue the point, but I suspect that the Pro6 full 7 step process has stuck around in part, because every lab is configured to run this way.

Ko.Fe. · Nov 11, 2019

I’m not sure how many e6 labs has left in Canada. One?
I have kit from argentix.ca. It is most easiest film to develop. I did e6, c41 and ecn2 at home.
As long as it is Kodak film I have no problems. Fuji gives too much of deep purple gunk and I never liked Fujifilm colours.

MattKing · Nov 11, 2019

Argentix won't ship E6 chemicals outside of Canada.
Vancouver has two labs that do E6 - The Lab, which is a full service, same day, dip and dunk E6 lab that will process everything up to 8"x10".
London Drugs still has one location that does 35mm E6.

Nodda Duma · Nov 11, 2019

mshchem said:
Does your kit come with final rinse /stabilizer?
I'm not an expert, but I think the Arista, Tetenal formulations are the same as the Kodak Hobby Pac kits that were sold for years. I'm sure people will argue the point, but I suspect that the Pro6 full 7 step process has stuck around in part, because every lab is configured to run this way.

I mixed up a stabilizer per a suggestion that PE posted here a while back.

Alan Edward Klein · Nov 11, 2019

Is there a home kit to develop 120 Velvia 50?

rayonline_nz · Nov 11, 2019

Alan Edward Klein said:
Is there a home kit to develop 120 Velvia 50?

Those would be the Arista E6 kits in 1 quart of 1 gallon size. They used to have Tetenal and Unicolor but Freestyle at least no longer list them.

mshchem · Nov 11, 2019

Nodda Duma said:
I mixed up a stabilizer per a suggestion that PE posted here a while back.

View attachment 234442

Excellent, where did you get the Formaldehyde? I used to have access to all that stuff, not anymore. Shouldn't need much. Back in the Good old days, I loved the smell of Formalin fixer .

mshchem · Nov 11, 2019

Nodda Duma said:
I mixed up a stabilizer per a suggestion that PE posted here a while back.

View attachment 234442

PS I looked at your media posts, very nice! 8×10 Provia and Velvia quite nice.

Nodda Duma · Nov 12, 2019

mshchem said:
Excellent, where did you get the Formaldehyde? I used to have access to all that stuff, not anymore. Shouldn't need much. Back in the Good old days, I loved the smell of Formalin fixer .

Been a while since I bought it... It was probably ebay to be honest.

dmr · Nov 12, 2019

I do it mainly due to the inconvenience and turnaround time of commercial processing. I find that it's no more difficult than color negative processing.

PE did a very convincing argument a while back on the inclusion of formalin in the process, as the common kits do not include it. I have connections where I can get all of the formalin I can drink but I'm sure that any chemical supply house that sells over the counter will stock it.

mshchem · Nov 12, 2019

The Fuji Pro6 kits that Freestyle sells is Formaldehyde free, these kits are made in Belgium. These kits substitute Pre bleach 2 for the conditioner and use a different final rinse.

The bulk Fuji Hunt chemistry used in the US, and made in the US, is the old formulation that still uses Formalin in the final rinse. I talked to a very nice Fujifilm technical sales rep at Photo Pro in Cedar Rapids Iowa recently. I was told that the Fuji Hunt operations in Rolling Meadows, Illinois, USA are being folded in to the Fujifilm corporation. Not sure if this will mean any other changes.

I just took delivery of the Belgium made kit, that should last me a while.

Kcwolf200 · Nov 13, 2019

mshchem said:
Excellent, where did you get the Formaldehyde? I used to have access to all that stuff, not anymore. Shouldn't need much. Back in the Good old days, I loved the smell of Formalin fixer .

I use the Unicolor kit and develop 2 rolls of 35mm at a time in a Patterson tank. I use a Sous Vide to keep temperature constant. I mix the same formalin mixture as listed above with the photoflo. To make it, 1 liter of distilled water with 5 ml of photoflo 200 (1:200) and add 10 ml of 37% formaldehyde (that I purchased on Amazon.com of all places).

I mixed the kit 2 1/2 months ago and just processed my 8th roll through it and my slides look great. The chemicals are in 1 liter bottles that all the air is squeezed out of them and are kept refrigerated. As per the instructions, I add 4% to my first developer time each time I process (all other chemical times remain the same).

maxwellmakoski · Nov 13, 2019

topsecretcolordarkroom does e6 in canada highly recommended always love supporting the guy. Minimize oxidation by using vacuum pump, storing in glass, fill to top or any combination. mix with distilled water and it will last months. Start with 3 bath kit 6 bath is only comfortable in a jobo and in my opinion there isn't much difference.

iandvaag · Nov 14, 2019

mshchem said:
where did you get the Formaldehyde

You can get formalin from "Science Company":
https://www.sciencecompany.com/NSearch.aspx?keywords=formalin

Home developing E6 - up to what point is it worth it?

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