Holding 35mm film while loading reels

slumry · Jul 30, 2009

This must not be a problem for most because I dont seem to be able to find any threads on this. When I first started developing film I would pop the end of the canister and pull the entire spindle out of the canister. With this method it is hard to hold the reel, the film end and the spindle and properly feed the film. It also seems to create a lot of scratches. The next technique I have used is to pop the end of the canister pull the spindle out and push it back in while feeding the end of the fill back into the canister slot. This actually works pretty well except that it too seems to product scratches, especially if the film rides up in the slot. I have heard of using a retriever to put the film out of a canister; however, I keep having trouble doing this and keep ruining film. It would seem that it would be pretty simple to jerry rig a holder that would hold the film spindle. Does anyone have such a device or know if there was even such a device commercially manufactured?

Paul Cocklin · Jul 30, 2009

While I've been fortunate in that I haven't had to deal with any scratches 'yet', I've thought about exactly this. Making a little stand that has a thin wooden dowel supported on either side. You could slip the spindle on, close the open side of the dowel and then simply load the reel, the film and spindle riding and spinning on the dowel. I haven't made it yet because, quite frankly I'm not that good at making things. I wondered if there was something already out there as well, but a cursory look through catalogues didn't turn up anything.

Might be a good small niche product if someone wants to make one.

bobwysiwyg · Jul 30, 2009

You don't mention what reel you use, but I use Paterson tank/reels. I pop open the canister, remove the spindle and film entirely. Once the film is started on the reel, I use my thumb and forefinger to rotate the reel and let the film and spindle drape between my third and fourth finger. Hope that makes sense.

meerkat · Jul 30, 2009

film loading device

Hi Paul,
Nova make such a device, intended for 120 film it has a cylinder you put the film in and a spindle to hold the reel, you insert film into reel and load reel as normal.
this device works well but is grossly overpriced at about 16 quid.

slumry · Jul 30, 2009

I use both Patterson and Hewes. My eye hand coordination (does it actually matter in a darkroom?) is not the best so juggling too many things is an issue. If find that it is so much easier when you put the film back into the canister so I don't have to worry about manipulating three different things if it was not for the scratches this would work well.

Meerkat, I could not find any reference to Nova. Can you provide more information? Thank you.

pentaxuser · Jul 30, 2009

Check that the reels are clean and dry. Do you use wetting agent at the end while the film is still on the reel? If so then you may find that even when the reel is dry there is a stickiness there caused by wetting agent deposits. With plastic reels which load from the top as opposed to steel reels which load from the centre the only sure way to prevent this stickiness is either a thorough wash and scrub each time you use the reel or removing the film from the reel and placing it and not the reel into wetting agent.

Durst reels also use a device for both 35mm and 120 reels which loads the film into the centre under a clip and then you wind on by a small a handle built into the reel's edge. Gettingthe film under the clip is a bit fiddly but once there, it's plain sailing and as it is being pulled on to the reel from the centre outwards as opposed to being pushed on from the top, stickiness shouldn't matter.

The snag is that you have to have two reels and tanks and two devices for 35m and 120 They are not interchangeable.

pentaxuser

slumry · Jul 30, 2009

Thanks for all the suggestions. I did find the Nova site but could not find a holder, if it is for 120 it probabably would not help, I acutally don't seem to have problems with 120. I have learned the hard way that you need to keep the Patterson Reels very clean. My technique is improving; however, a holder would make it a lot easier. I have a preliminary design for a holder that I will try building, just wish I did not have to reinvent the wheel if it has already been invented.

Steve Smith · Jul 30, 2009

My method is a bit different to most. I either rewind the film to leave the leader out or use an Ilford film retriever to get it out.

Then I cut it off square and start it into the reel outside of the changing bag.

Then it goes into the bag to be wound onto the reel. I pull about 12" out at a time then wind it on.

When it is all wound on I just tear the film off against the edge of the slot in the canister.

Steve.

Anscojohn · Jul 30, 2009

Often times, when on the road, we had to load film in less-than-ideal venues. The old lab rats would hold the spooled film gently in the "weak" hand, covering it with the palm as the film was fed into the SS reels. They claimed this kept dust and stray light off the film. Whether true or not, that is the way I do it. The key to easy loading film in the dark is to keep the eyes closed--easier to visualize what one is doing.

Robert Kerwin · Jul 30, 2009

Are you positive the scratches are the result of your film spooling technique or do they happen elsewhere? Do you bulk-load your own cassettes or use the manufactured ones? Since I've quit bulk-loading and use manufactured cassettes, I've noticed a dramatic reduction in scratches.

You also might consider giving the film path of your camera a good (but careful) cleaning. Other precautions are to be sure your darkroom is as clean as possible and wash your hands before spooling film onto the reels (use a lint-free cloth/towel to dry your hands).

slumry · Jul 30, 2009

I only use store bough film and do not bulk load. When I pull the spindle out and try and cup it in my hand, I almost always lose control of it and the film flops around like a dead fish and some how picks up scratches from somewhere. If I do the put the spindle back into the cassette trick, the edges on the open cassette are very sharpe and unless I am very carefull, the film tends to find these edges. The problem is that for me I need two hands to work with the film and reel, at least to start.

The second technique works pretty well for me. I am wondering that instead of using the film cassette that I use the original plastic container for the cassette and put a slot in it. The bonus would be that I can now have a cap and I will be using a material that is far less prone to sratching.

ann · Jul 30, 2009

having done this for over 60 years i find it second nature at this point in life.

and i do believe it is a hand eye corrindation, dark or not.

i remove the film from the canister, completely and hold it in my right hand, lightly by the edges and feed it into the reel, either plastic or steel same method.

never any scratches

mgb74 · Jul 30, 2009

Anscojohn said:
The key to easy loading film in the dark is to keep the eyes closed--easier to visualize what one is doing.

And I thought it was just me who closed their eyes while loading film.

Anscojohn · Jul 30, 2009

mgb74 said:
And I thought it was just me who closed their eyes while loading film.

******
MG,
It is the secret we'd best not let anyone else in on.

Martin Aislabie · Jul 30, 2009

Anscojohn said:
******
MG,
It is the secret we'd best not let anyone else in on.

I do too

Find it helps me to "see" what is going on :rolleyes:

Martin

Sirius Glass · Jul 30, 2009

Anscojohn said:
Often times, when on the road, we had to load film in less-than-ideal venues. The old lab rats would hold the spooled film gently in the "weak" hand, covering it with the palm as the film was fed into the SS reels. They claimed this kept dust and stray light off the film. Whether true or not, that is the way I do it. The key to easy loading film in the dark is to keep the eyes closed--easier to visualize what one is doing.

That is what I do with the Hewes reels, I palm the film in one hand and hold the reel in the other hand.

Steve

Anscojohn · Jul 30, 2009

Sirius Glass said:
That is what I do with the Hewes reels, I palm the film in one hand and hold the reel in the other hand.

Steve

******
Betcha doan keepyureyes clost, tho!!

DLM · Jul 30, 2009

I find myself closing my eyes often, too. I used to just pop the cap on the canister and let the spool hang while I reeled the film, but lately I've been using a film retriever to get the leader out right before I go in to load the reels. The weight of the canister helps to keep the film hanging straight and, for me, makes the loading a whole lot easier, especially when I get close to the end of the roll of film. Without the canister, the film would usually get all twisted and hard to manage towards the end but not anymore.

ann · Jul 30, 2009

When people close their eyes when learning, they tend to close them in the reality of the film "room" , it helps the muscles rememeber what they need to do.

One year i told my beginning students i could load film with my eyes closed and they had me prove it in front of them , which of course wasn't hard as that is what i do in the dark.

slumry · Jul 30, 2009

I always close my eyes when I am spooling film onto the reels, it keeps the light out. One time I blinked and the whole roll of film was fogged.

Ian David · Jul 31, 2009

Hi there
I just pop the end off, pull the whole spool out and hold it in gently in the fingers of my right hand. After cutting off the leader, I feed the film into the stainless steel spiral (which is in my left hand) with the right thumb and index finger. (I am careful never to drop the spool of film - even if it never reaches the ground it can get kinks and end up with dust and fingerprints on it.)
I think my secret to trouble-free loading of stainless steel reels (35mm and 120) is to do it while sitting on a low stool. I can then rest the spool on my leg at any stage of the process if I need to. Sometimes means that less juggling is required!
Good luck!
Ian
p.s. never really thought much about it before, but I generally keep my eyes open (partly because my dog has a habit of pushing on doors and compromising light-tightness...)

hoffy · Jul 31, 2009

For a newbie like me, I am paranoid about scratching the film. I was given a leader retriever, which I have never used for this particular reason. Am I being too paranoid?

Ian David · Jul 31, 2009

The leader retriever, if used carefully, is unlikely ever to scratch your film in any significant way. More likely that you will scratch it by dragging the whole film back through the lightseal, but even that is probably mostly not a problem. That said, if you don't mind wrecking the canisters, I think it is a better idea just to pop the end off.

Sirius Glass · Jul 31, 2009

Anscojohn said:
******
Betcha doan keepyureyes clost, tho!!

Yep, I do most of the time even though I use a darkroom bag. That way if I drop the roll of film it is still in the bag!

Steve

Dennis S · Jul 31, 2009

a loading device

Here is a loading device that I have. Sorry for the sh^&*y photo but what do I know about using a dig^&* camera. This is the 35mm one and I have the 120 as well. The emulsion side never rubs on a surface.
And for some reason I keep my eyes open.

Holding 35mm film while loading reels

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