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Hijacking Yosemite!!!

Ken Nadvornick

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What is faster?



[Brief off-topic...]

The high-end Ferrari I once rode in during a similar demonstration wasn't even close to the Tesla. Sadly, I've never been in a top fuel NHRA dragster, so who knows?

"A top fuel dragster accelerates from a standstill to 100 miles per hour (160 km/h) in as little as 0.8 seconds (less than one third the time required by a production Porsche 911 Turbo to reach 60 miles per hour (97 km/h)) and can exceed 280 miles per hour (450 km/h) in just 660 feet (200 m). This acceleration subjects the driver to an average force of about 4.0 G over the duration of the race."

OK... that has the Tesla beat...

:eek:

[End off-topic, and this time I really mean it (or thought I did)...]

Ken
 
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Steve Smith

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The high-end Ferrari I once rode in during a similar demonstration wasn't even close to the Tesla.

Electric traction is definitely the future. Along with steam engines, they have the benefit of having maxim torque at minimum revolutions which can lead to better acceleration.

It's also why a steam or electric (including diesel electric) locomotive can take a large heavy train from standstill to full speed without the aid of changing gear ratios.

A totally silent motorcycle is a very bad idea. Also, most bikers like the sound of their bike

Search for Killacycle on YouTube.


Steve.
 

Truzi

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Some older engines used to get their torque in at lower RPMs, but other concerns have prevailed, so most newer engines really have to wind up to get there. Being small doesn't help. It's not as simple as it appears - it's all relative.
 

Theo Sulphate

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What is faster?

In my personal experience, a Lamborghini LP560. A Ferrari 458 should also be competitive, though I've no experience with it. You don't need to enter the realm of the dragster to get low 0-60 times: back in the early 1980's, Group B rally cars were well under 3 seconds.

However, as a Lotus owner (among other exotics) I can tell you that speed or acceleration alone is not everything. A simple superb car with amazing handling rewards skilled drivers and is immensely satisfying. The Tesla and future over-automated, do-everything cars will never be that satisfying and their "drivers" will be appliance operators.

Ok. That's the end of my rant.
 

Ken Nadvornick

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Absolutely correct. I had written a longish post on exactly that, but decided I was getting too far off-topic.

Those are the two main forms of heavy-duty so-called linear power curve systems. Diesel/electric locomotives were chosen to replace wood/coal/oil-fired steam locomotives for precisely that reason. No gearbox is required because there is no non-linear engine RPM sweet spot to stay inside, so they mimic the performance of their steam predecessors.

And in fact a Tesla, or any fully electric vehicle, utilizes exactly the same principle, except the Tesla substitutes lithium batteries for the uncoupled diesel engines that drive electric generators in the locomotives. And nuclear-powered ships simply use radioactive decay instead of external combustion boilers to produce steam for conventional propulsion.

Accelerating in a Tesla is somewhat akin to starting out in the Ferrari from a dead stop in first gear, then stepping on the gas all the way, but never having to shift again, and still getting that same level of first gear acceleration all the way up to the maximum speed.

Conceptually it's closer to a rocket, where you go from a standstill to orbital velocity in one continuous maximum push, than it is to a gasoline engine where you must approach your maximum speed in discreet well-defined stages one after another.

And in practice it's truly eerie.

In the Tesla your key fob signals your proximity to the vehicle and activates its systems before you even climb in. You just get in, sit down, press the accelerator, and go.

There is no starting of an engine. No warm-up. No oil pressure. No water pressure. No putting it in gear. No engine revving. No clutching. No transmission. No drive train. No vibrations. No sound. No smell. Nothing. Open the window and all you hear is the tires rolling on the pavement. And the wind rushing by.

It's a completely different energy management approach to converting potential energy into the kinetic energy of motion. From a basic physics point of view, internal combustion engines just cannot fully compete, even if they do look and sound much cooler to the eyes and ears.

They are simply constrained by their basic physical and design limitations, much the same way that a bicycle cannot match up with a motorcycle, even though both have two wheels and in principle operate very similarly.

Ken
 
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Ken Nadvornick

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I feel terrible. I think we high-jacked the Hijacking Yosemite!!! thread.

My sincere apologies to the original poster...



Ken
 

Nodda Duma

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I lived in CA for a decade and life west of the Rockies definitely doesn't look back east.

BTW, if you live in New England...

 

Truzi

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Remember, electric vehicles were in use in the early 20th century. Also, as price and size become an object in future EVs, there is a possibility that smaller and cheaper motors will be used - motors either with lower RPM limits, or lower torque requiring higher RPM (just like what happened with engines over the past three decades). Either might require gearing the motor.

Sorry, I have to get off this hijack too... it's just that I know far more about cars than photography or trademark/copyright issues.
 

Theo Sulphate

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My sincere apologies to the original poster...
Ken

Mine, too.

So, it will be interesting to see whether the park service stays with Delaware North or not and why. If their application is attractive compared to the others, my bet is that the park service would simply stay with them and then there's no dispute over names. That would be a simple business decision that ignores any animosity over the dispute. Where it gets interesting is if another concession service submits a more attractive application: does the park service dump Delaware North and lose rights to the names (partly out of animosity?) or do they stay with them (mostly to avoid fighting over legal issues)?
 

Truzi

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Typically, government bodies must go with the lowest and "best" bid (though the "best" part is often forgotten). I don't think a trademark dispute would qualify in the "best" category.

Actually, Federal ethics laws may interpret the consideration of Trademarks in granting the bid to be unethical. It could be seen as giving the company an unfair advantage over other bidders.

If the company's tactics in surreptitiously securing trademarks of public sites is determined to be severe enough, the government may even prohibit conducting business with the company (analogous to the previous contractor losing the job because it was no longer owned by an U.S. firm).

There are standards that divisions of the government must maintain.
 

SchwinnParamount

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My feeling is that Delaware North should get an additional *NOTHING*. They've already hugely benefited from a 1.5 billion dollar contract. What else do they want? They look like pigs at a feeding trough. It's time to kill them and take their bacon. They've outlived their usefulness. The fact that they are making these outrageous claims makes me want to take their bacon that much more quickly.

After two scotches this late afternoon, I've said enough. Any more typing and I'll regret my words.
 

mgb74

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They can claim whatever they want but the names are historical and that has precedence and province over their claims. How is North Delaware going to stop the use of those names?

They don't have to.

What they have to do is to interject enough fear, uncertainty, and doubt among the competition so that competitors either decline to bid or that competitors bid too low in order to compensate for the perceived risk.
 

ME Super

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If I recall correctly (I am not a lawyer, so standard disclaimers apply), "prior art" and "public domain" may apply here. For example, If I trademarked APUG, I could sue Sean for trademark infringement. Under US law, however, Sean could claim "prior art" since he can prove the website with the name APUG existed before I registered the trademark, which would allow him to continue using the APUG name in spite of my trademark.

Public domain comes into play when something is no longer in copyright term, or were never protected by copyright law. Works of the United States Government (the jurisdictional authority in this case, since the place names were likely assigned by them or their agents) are excluded from copyright law and may be considered to be in the public domain. "It is axiomatic that material in the public domain is not protected by copyright, even when incorporated into a copyrighted work." If the courts consider the names of locations in Yosemite to be US government works, they are in the public domain. They may be freely incorporated into copyrighted works, but the copyright does not cover the portions of the works taken from the public domain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain
 

removed account4

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in order to trade/service mark something you need to submit the application
and there is a review period where people can oppose the trade/service mark.
it seems strange to say the least that someone at the trademark office didn't raise
a red flag when the applications went through. its not like submitting for copyright
where the submission is catalogued and a certificate is mailed out ...
 

mgb74

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I can understand to some degree; I wouldn't necessary expect a trademark examiner to know the background on some of these terms. Though "Badger Pass" would seem a relatively common term.

You can actually search the Trademark office database (for example, //tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4810:vzjlzt.2.2).

It appears to this non-attorney that they trademarked the name for t-shirts, cups, etc, rather than the hotel itself. But it suggests that a competitor could not sell those items with that "trademark".
 

removed account4

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It appears to this non-attorney that they trademarked the name for t-shirts, cups, etc, rather than the hotel itself. But it suggests that a competitor could not sell those items with that "trademark".

after searching the database i came to the same conclusion ... i have a feeling there is more to the story than was printed
like with a lot of ( over the top dramatic ) stories if you scratch the surface it ends up being about something completely different ...
 

DREW WILEY

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I grew up near Yosemite, and we used to either call it The City because of the summer crowds, or contemptuously, Curry National Park, for the abuses or that monopolistic concession back then, when they still publicly fed bears with garbage in front of grandstands and pushed
burning coals off Glacier Point. So it works both ways, and all this could become rather comical if taken to its logical extreme once the ball starts rolling. For example, certain native Americans could hypothetical claim ancestry from the orignal resident Ahwaneechee and counter-sue to place name rights, which would land things right back where they started. And lots of things are on maps. It's not like changing the name on a stadium every time there's a change in ownership. Everyone would stone these smart alecs to death anyway. Fat chance.
 

Richard S. (rich815)

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DREW WILEY

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Hard to say anymore. Fake fire fall = hot coals pushed off Glacier Pt. Real fire fall = sunlight shaft thru Horsetail Falls. New fake fire fall =
digitally colored Horsetail Falls anytime of year, maybe even a fake waterfall too.
 

SchwinnParamount

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I remember that you could hear the coal pusher yell "Let the fire fall!" from down in Camp Curry. As a little kid, I thought it was kind of neat.
 

Trail Images

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I remember that you could hear the coal pusher yell "Let the fire fall!" from down in Camp Curry. As a little kid, I thought it was kind of neat.

Yep, me too. I'd known about the event for years but finally made it to the Yosemite valley for a week of camping as a teen.