Highest powered auto metering flash for bouncing.

Per Bjesse · Nov 28, 2018

I am currently using a Metz 45 hammerhead when I want to do indoor bounce flash with my Hasselblad. However, I often find myself wanting more power. What is the most powerful flash with auto metering available that could go on a flash bracket (or has its own bracket), with pc sync? I don't care about TTL metering.

Clearly the Metz 60 is a step up, and the Metz 76 possibly even more so (although I have seen reports that when setting the head to 35mm it is actually less bright than the 60). I am ok with speciality battery packs, as long as one can find them currently. Lower budget is better than higher budget.

WilmarcoImaging · Nov 28, 2018

Are you open to the idea of using a flash meter to measure exposure, and setting the camera shutter and aperture manually? A monolight or powerpack strobe would be an option for you in this case.

What genre of images are you making? Portraits, still life and table top/product photography lens themselves well to the monolight and powerpack systems. There are more modifiers available if you look beyond a hammerhead or speedlight.

Per Bjesse · Nov 28, 2018

WilmarcoImaging said:
Are you open to the idea of using a flash meter to measure exposure, and setting the camera shutter and aperture manually? A monolight or powerpack strobe would be an option for you in this case.

What genre of images are you making? Portraits, still life and table top/product photography lens themselves well to the monolight and powerpack systems. There are more modifiers available if you look beyond a hammerhead or speedlight.

This is for run and gun photography for things like house shows or indoor events where I like to be very nimble and mobile and catch spur of the moment action while still getting nicer light through bouncing rather than the "deer in the headlights" look flash photography. I don't necessarily want to interfer with what is going on to meter (I also do carefully set up studio photography, and there I use all manual flashes). I have had very good experiences with the metz 45, but I often find myself wanting more power while still retaining the auto metering. If I am doing similar photography in a space that is too big to allow bouncing I typically use a vivitar 285 and it works just fine. My hope is to find something more powerful with auto metering for bounce.

AgX · Nov 28, 2018

Per Bjesse said:
Clearly the Metz 60 is a step up,...

The Metz has GNm 60. The Sunpak 622 super-pro has 60. The Braun F900 has 62. The Agfatronic 643 has 64.
But that's about it.
However the Sunpak is even a integrated device, the other two got a seperate battery/generator.

The Metz 76 has GNm of about 45.
Do not let you fool by the designations.
After the type 45 flashes Metz, as other manufacturers, related the guide number to the smallest lighting angle a flash offers.

Per Bjesse · Nov 28, 2018

AgX said:
The Metz has GNm 60. The Sunpak 622 super-pro has 60. The Braun F900 has 62.
But that's about it.
However the Sunpak is even a integrated device, the other two got a seperate battery/generator.

The Metz 76 has GNm of about 45.
Do not let you fool by the designations.
After the type 45 flashes Metz, as other manufacturers, related the guide number to the smallest lighting angle a flash offers.

Yeah, that is what I thought. It looks like Quantum may have some flashes that are auto metering and higher guide number but I have no idea which ones would be good for this use model. Anyone out there with experience?

Per Bjesse · Nov 28, 2018

AgX said:
The Metz has GNm 60. The Sunpak 622 super-pro has 60. The Braun F900 has 62.
But that's about it.
However the Sunpak is even a integrated device, the other two got a seperate battery/generator.

The Metz 76 has GNm of about 45.
Do not let you fool by the designations.
After the type 45 flashes Metz, as other manufacturers, related the guide number to the smallest lighting angle a flash offers.

Wait, are you saying that the Metz 60 is not any more powerful than the 45 when compared at normal lighting angles? Because I thought it was.

Ian Grant · Nov 28, 2018

I have a few Metz units but it's a no brainer.

Just get yourself proper studio flash units and a flash meter, I use Bowens and Elinchrom but there's plenty of cheaper alternatives.e days. If a mains unit isn't enough try flash bulbs but that's going back to the Ark.

Ian

AgX · Nov 28, 2018

Per Bjesse said:
Wait, are you saying that the Metz 60 is not any more powerful than the 45 when compared at normal lighting angles? Because I thought it was.

The Metz 60 series started before the 45 series. Thus the 60 series too got the "classic" GN-designation.

Wait... up into the 70s the GNm was related to DIN 18/ ASA 50 . We consumers are being fooled long time...

Chan Tran · Nov 28, 2018

The Metz 60 is about the most powerful flash you can get with a 35mm. The Sunpak 622 has about the same power. The Metz 76 has less power but if you bounce you may be able to get away by zooming to a focal length longer than the lens. For example if you use a 35mm lens when bounce you may be able to use the 80mm zoom setting.

Per Bjesse · Nov 28, 2018

Ian Grant said:
I have a few Metz units but it's a no brainer.

Just get yourself proper studio flash units and a flash meter, I use Bowens and Elinchrom but there's plenty of cheaper alternatives.e days. If a mains unit isn't enough try flash bulbs but that's going back to the Ark.

Ian

The use model here is being completely mobile over a big area without being able to interfer with subjects to take flash readings by them. Think Larry Fink, but bounce flash instead of direct flash. If it was more static, and less impromptu what you suggest would be great (but pretty pricey given that a Metz 60 goes for $50 or so plus <$100 for a new battery).

Per Bjesse · Nov 28, 2018

Chan Tran said:
The Metz 60 is about the most powerful flash you can get with a 35mm. The Sunpak 622 has about the same power. The Metz 76 has less power but if you bounce you may be able to get away by zooming to a focal length longer than the lens. For example if you use a 35mm lens when bounce you may be able to use the 80mm zoom setting.

Yeah, I may just go down the 60 route. I just wanted to make sure there was nothing even more powerful in the same price range.

AgX · Nov 28, 2018

With the Metz 60 you can zoom too, but that attachment is extremely bulky.

Thus here wins the Sunpak again.
And it offers TTL control.

Pieter12 · Nov 28, 2018

Not sure if this fits the bill...https://profoto.com/us/products/lights/on-camera-flashes/profoto-a1

AgX · Nov 28, 2018

GNm would be 40 or less.

And you guys are throwing the money out of the window.

Sirius Glass · Nov 28, 2018

If you really want to "gun and run" then you need to use TTL and let the flash electronics do all the calculating for you. Why are you making it hard on yourself?

MattKing · Nov 28, 2018

My Metz 60 CT-1 and CT-2 flashes used to be great for run and gun shooting at wedding receptions using Vericolour or later Portra 160 ASA/ISO films.
I used to use lots of bounce flash. Most of my work was with 120 film.
There are accessories that work with them that allow you to carry your own reflector - bulky, but a bit more efficient and flexible than depending on ceilings and walls and floors.
And the combination of the thyristor circuitry and those batteries is great, even if the batteries are expensive.
I have the necessary adapter to do TTl flash with my OM cameras and the 60-CT-2, but I always got great results relying on the built-in auto flash in the Metz flashes.

Per Bjesse · Nov 28, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
If you really want to "gun and run" then you need to use TTL and let the flash electronics do all the calculating for you. Why are you making it hard on yourself?

Because I use fully mechanical cameras without TTL support, that's why. And the metz flashes do a fine job without TTL.

AgX · Nov 28, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
If you really want to "gun and run" then you need to use TTL and let the flash electronics do all the calculating for you. Why are you making it hard on yourself?

Does one really need TTL flash control on each task? Furthermore three of the four flashes I mentioned above enable TTL-control, the Agfa, the latest Metz and the Sunpak.

Chan Tran · Nov 28, 2018

AgX said:
With the Metz 60 you can zoom too, but that attachment is extremely bulky.

Thus here wins the Sunpak again.
And it offers TTL control.

I can't find that attachment.

Chan Tran · Nov 28, 2018

AgX said:
With the Metz 60 you can zoom too, but that attachment is extremely bulky.

Thus here wins the Sunpak again.
And it offers TTL control.

I have TTL with the Metz 60CT4 with the F3 and F5 (I think I am in the analog section). It doesn't support TTL for digital but then the Sunpak doesn't either.

Chan Tran · Nov 28, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
If you really want to "gun and run" then you need to use TTL and let the flash electronics do all the calculating for you. Why are you making it hard on yourself?

Don't need to do any calculating with a non TTL flash.

removed account4 · Nov 28, 2018

lumedyne's have a handle unit that allows you to cut them from 2ws all the way beyond 800ws
sometimes the whole kids are available here and on eboink .. the battery packs support 2 heads
and they have some battery units that are attached to the head with a handle unit built in
might be worth looking into ive had a lumedyne for 30 years and a handle for IDK 15? worth their weights in gold !
the 244 with the regular 200ws battery and 1 head without the reflector will light up a 8x8x8 room.

WilmarcoImaging · Nov 28, 2018

What are the room dimensions? length x width x ceiling height

btaylor · Nov 28, 2018

MattKing said:
carry your own reflector - bulky, but a bit more efficient and flexible than depending on ceilings and walls and floors.
I always got great results relying on the built-in auto flash in the Metz flashes.

Just a thought, as Matt pointed out you lose a lot of light bouncing off the ceiling. The portable softboxes (mounted on the camera with the flash) prevents the very harsh shadows of a straight on flash blitz while reducing the light loss. I have one that mounts a foot or so above the camera allowing a little modeling. Might be worth a try.
I never had a TTL flash and always got great exposure results from the auto flash function in my Vivitar 285's.

AgX · Nov 28, 2018

Chan Tran said:
I can't find that attachment.

The manual states that it can be TTL-controlled. There are a number of adapters listed for cameras that yield the TTL flash control feature. Thus I assume the respective adapters enable TTL-control.

That Sunpak flash years ago with quite some accessories was on my list, but it never came to that acquisition. I never saw any Sunpak flash in a shop back then, and up to today I never came across any large Sunpak flash!

Highest powered auto metering flash for bouncing.

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