High Volume 4x5? Advice needed.

Sportera · Dec 20, 2006

I shoot am shooting a lot of 4x5's recently, however Ive been limited by 1. how many holders I can carry and 2. How many i can process at a particular time.

I usually carry 6 holders and keep six more in the truck. I burn the 4x5's up usually first and then shoot the remanider of the time in 35mm, often the best light ends up being shot on 35mm becuase Ive exhausted my 4x5's!

My preferred film is Fp4 and was wondering if you guys had any advice on shooting and processing more 4x5 film. Ilford doesn't make quickloads or readyloads right?

Any thoughts, adivice or expierences are welcomed.

Thanks
Sam

NikoSperi · Dec 20, 2006

Hi Sam,
Silent admirer of your photos, just thought I'd throw that in. How are you developing your films? If you can batch times together, so you can get six sheets at the same time, the Jobo tank I use gets me daylight operation for sheet film for up to six sheets at a time.

BrianShaw · Dec 20, 2006

I often have the same problem - running out of film before I'm finished shooting, even though I rarely shoot the volume that you do. My solution has always been to bring more loaded holders. Sorry if this sounds nonresponsive to your question; that's not my intent... but it is the best solution I've found so far.

I'll be going on a photo trip next week and will be trying something new: bringing a changing bag and loading/unloading as the need is dictated.

For processing, I wimp out... and send it to a local lab. Quantity is never a problem (except, maybe, when the bill comes due).

Nick Zentena · Dec 20, 2006

You don't say how you process but Niko is on the right tract. But he's thinking too small -) The 2581 Jobo tank can handle 18 sheets per batch. I don't off the top of my head remember if the bigger tank can fit a full 24 sheets or not. But that thing must be huge.

Nick Zentena · Dec 20, 2006

Just checked. The 2593 is rated for 24 sheets with four 2509N reels. OTOH I don't think any of the processors are big enough for the thing -)

NikoSperi · Dec 20, 2006

Nick Zentena said:
Just checked. The 2593 is rated for 24 sheets with four 2509N reels. OTOH I don't think any of the processors are big enough for the thing -)

Can you imagine how badly wrong loading that thing could go? :rolleyes: It may be weeks before you are found, starved and dehydrated, arms stuck in (hugely XXL) changing bag...

Jerevan · Dec 20, 2006

I am definitely not a high-volume shooter (at the moment none - waiting for my new camera) but maybe the Grafmatic holders, for six sheets, could be something? Apart from that, schlepping more holders is the only other option I know of. Unless you want to use a film tent and change film in holders out in the field.

Nick Zentena · Dec 20, 2006

NikoSperi said:
Can you imagine how badly wrong loading that thing could go? :rolleyes: It may be weeks before you are found, starved and dehydrated, arms stuck in (hugely XXL) changing bag...

No worries. I load in the cantina

palewin · Dec 20, 2006

Not sure how practical this is, but ... (1) Ilford does not make ready-loads. (2) There were, for a while, a range of Mido film holders which were essentially load-your-own ready loads. The "carriers" were envelopes which you loaded in the darkroom, and slipped into a plastic film holder for use (really just like a ready load). There were two versions; vI was the first, and less reliable; vII carriers were a bit thicker, but worked better. The bad news is that they are out of production (you can always scan eBay); the good news is that Mr. Midori might be producing new ones. Do a search for "Mido" on the LF Photo Forum for the thread, which includes info on how to contact Mr. Midori.

glbeas · Dec 20, 2006

I have 7 or 8 grafmatics, I can load more than I can shoot in a day. Afterwards I use a 4x5 Nikor tank and soup 6 at a time and it usually goes pretty fast. The only bottleneck is hanging space in the drying cabinet.

Terence · Dec 20, 2006

Grafmatics for the shooting. Lots of lonely hours for developing.

OldBikerPete · Dec 20, 2006

Grafmatics get my vote, too. I have three but I usually have ten or more double-darks close by as well. BTW I shoot color neg. and develop my own.

Sportera · Dec 20, 2006

Are the grafmatics difficult to load? Seems like that may be the solution, does anyone know of where to get them besides ebay?

PHOTOTONE · Dec 20, 2006

The once common Cesco style 3.5 gallon black "plastic" tank is a good choice for processing large quantity of sheets at once, if you can find the old stainless steel 4 sheet film hangers. These are the same overall size as a single 8x10 film hanger designed for use in deep tanks. If you mix-up 3.5 gallons of developer, stop, fix, then you would be wanting to replenish, rather than replace. I have 10 of the 4 sheet Stainless hangars, so I can process 40 sheets at once. That is about the limit of what one can pick up in the hand conveniently for raise tilt and lower agitation. I certainly second the motion for Grafmatic holders. Each holder takes six sheets, so with my six Grafmatics, I have the equivalent of a 36 exposure roll of film.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 20, 2006

Grafmatics and tank/hanger processing are my solution. I've gotten most of my Grafmatics from eBay. They're not too hard to load, once you've got the hang of it. I have 8 Grafmatics and 2 Kinematic holders, which hold 10 sheets each. Grafmatics are more reliable, though, so I usually prefer them, though it is nice occasionally to go out for some casual shooting with two Kinematics and 20 sheets of film.

I have 5x7" tanks and single sheet hangers for 4x5" and 5x7", and I find it faster than other methods, but if you really have a lot of volume, then go for 8x10" tanks with 4-up hangers, and use a replenishable developer. I can do 40 sheets this way in a few hours, allowing for drying and reusing hangers. Of course if you have more hangers and a developer like Acufine, which has a short development time, you can go faster.

Drying space can be a limitation. I recommend Jobo sheet film clips, which are expensive, but they are the best sheet film clips, and they let you hang a lot of film perpendicular to the line with the sheets parallel, so no matter what the format is, you can fit a lot of sheets in a small space.

Sportera · Dec 20, 2006

David,

Are they difficult to load? Whats a good price for one, and what should I look out for when buying one?

Thanks
Sam

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 20, 2006

I don't find Grafmatics difficult to load. You remove the septums, pop the sheets into the septums, replace the septums in the holder, cycle once, reset the counter, and your LF motor drive is ready to shoot.

In good condition, they tend to be around $65-90. Try to get the later model that locks after 6 shots, but if you get the earlier type, just pay attention to the frame counter and remove the holder from the camera by holding the body of the holder, not the darkslide handle. I have 4 of each.

If you can check the holder in advance, be sure it has all 6 septums, that the septums aren't bent, and that it cycles smoothly. If the septums are flat, but it doesn't cycle smoothly, it may just need to be disassembled and cleaned. Slightly bent septums can be straightened.

I think we have a thread here or two about Grafmatics, also at lfphoto.org, and at graflex.org you should be able to track down an instruction manual, which explains how to load them.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 20, 2006

Another thing--If you use a changing bag or a changing tent, you need a larger one than normal, because a Grafmatic with the darkslide and the film drawer out is a little more than 50% longer than a regular filmholder with the darkslide pulled out.

Sportera · Dec 20, 2006

Thanks David.

I will continue using my Hp Combi Tack doing six at a time, would love to be able to do twelve as the tank is advertised but I find while you get even development with 12 sheets loaded back to back \, emulsion side out, fixing is another problem. Fixer apparently need to come in contact with both side of the film are it simply doesn't work.

jstraw · Dec 20, 2006

Some people, myself included, remove the counters from Grafmatics due to the fact that they super-impose a numeral onto the exposed frame and to eliminate that from the print, you must crop the entire edge.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 20, 2006

You could get yourself three HP Combi tanks and use them tankline style. Set up one for developer, one for stop, and one for fixer, and you'll have three racks ready to develop in succession.

jstraw · Dec 20, 2006

David A. Goldfarb said:
You could get yourself three HP Combi tanks and use them tankline style. Set up one for developer, one for stop, and one for fixer, and you'll have three racks ready to develop in succession.

Hmm, I have two Combi-Plans and I also have three Yankee tanks...you give me an idea.

I have been using the two tanks for one rack with the following sequence:

Tank A - presoak
Tank B - dev
Tank A - stop
Tank B - fix
Tank A - hypo clear
Tank A - wash
Yankee C - photoflo

I could do two racks when needed like this:

Yankee A - presoak
Combi A&B - dev
Yankee B - stop
Combi A&B - fix
Yankee A - hypo clear
Yankee B - wash
Yankee C - photoflo

Sportera · Dec 20, 2006

Excellent idea!

Just adding one more tank would help. I could load both poor in developer in one, start the time, wait a minute or two and then poor in the developer for the other. It takes about 20-30 seconds to fill and empty the tanks. this could speed thing up a bit.

glbeas · Dec 20, 2006

You can find the grafmatic manual here:
http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/grafmatic/

reellis67 · Dec 20, 2006

I should first warn you that I'm kind of a home-brew solution type person, so you may not get much from my suggestions, but I'll tell you how I do it and you can take what you will from it. I tend to carry a boat-load of holders - up to 24, I like to have a selection of films on hand - when going places I really want to work on, and I keep them in a small canvas bag over my shoulder. The camera rides around on the tripod once I get setup, and then the bag goes over the shoulder for working the location.

When it comes time to developing, I use ye olde Kodak hard rubber tanks and 8 hangers at a go. I can process quite a few films in a short time with these, but it's all in the dark. Just line 'em up and work down the line. They're small enough to pack around and work in a hotel bathroom most of the time, if you don't mind working off the floor on occasion. The only drawback is the volume needed to fill them, which is a bit much for small batches but just fine for large runs.

For reloading in the field, I can say the option of last resort is a changing bag. Even the big ones don't have enough room to work, but if you get the biggest you can find, you can prop up the insides and make a sort of changing tent out of it.

- Randy

High Volume 4x5? Advice needed.

Sportera

NikoSperi

BrianShaw

Nick Zentena

Nick Zentena

NikoSperi

Jerevan

Nick Zentena

palewin

glbeas

Terence

OldBikerPete

Sportera

PHOTOTONE

David A. Goldfarb

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Sportera

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Sportera

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David A. Goldfarb

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Sportera

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High Volume 4x5? Advice needed.

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