High B+F with AristaEDU Ultra 100 (Foma) with W2D2+

Eric Jones · Mar 27, 2006

While awaiting my chemicals to make up some 510-PYRO I tried some Formulary W2D2+ with some AristaEDU Ultra 100 (Fomapan 100). It seems to have a quite unusual high B+F, in the 0.35 range (visual). I followed the procedures to the tee. Pre-soak in distilled water, developer mixed with distilled water, filtered tap water stop bath and finally Formulary TF-4 fixer. I developed for 8 minutes @ 68F with the 30 seconds initial agitation followed by 15 seconds of agitation every 30 seconds. Would anyone know the possible reasons that I ended up with so much B+F? Also I read that WD2D+ should have a yellow/orange color to the stain, these negs are clearly bluish/green. Any thoughts?

Gerald Koch · Mar 27, 2006

I can't speak for W2D2+ but for the developers I use 15 seconds of agitation every 30 seconds is way too much agitation. The usual recommendation is 5 sec every 30 sec or 10 sec every min.

Eric Jones · Mar 27, 2006

The agitation scheme is what is stated in the WD2D+ directions and is much more than I commonly do with other developers as well. But would over-agitation contribute to such a high B+F? I would expect the contrast to be quite high as well if over-agitation was the case. The tests involved a pretty straight forward 7-stop range scene and the highlights come in around 1.15 visual.

Donald Miller · Mar 27, 2006

High B+F would indicate old film, over exposed or over developed. The net DR of .80 would seem to rule out over development.

Ruling out old film...just for the hell of it...I can make a case for overexposure and underdevelopment.

How did you rate the film...most importantly, if you are a Zone System practitioner where did you place the shadows in your exposure?

sanking · Mar 27, 2006

Eric Jones said:
While awaiting my chemicals to make up some 510-PYRO I tried some Formulary W2D2+ with some AristaEDU Ultra 100 (Fomapan 100). It seems to have a quite unusual high B+F, in the 0.35 range (visual). I followed the procedures to the tee. Pre-soak in distilled water, developer mixed with distilled water, filtered tap water stop bath and finally Formulary TF-4 fixer. I developed for 8 minutes @ 68F with the 30 seconds initial agitation followed by 15 seconds of agitation every 30 seconds. Would anyone know the possible reasons that I ended up with so much B+F? Also I read that WD2D+ should have a yellow/orange color to the stain, these negs are clearly bluish/green. Any thoughts?

Most probable causes for high B+F are, 1) outdated film or film that has been fogged by extended exposure to heat, 2) over-exposure, 3) over-development, or 4) with staining developers, something real bad in the tap water. This assumes that the developed was correctly formulated and mixed.

I am baffled by the bluish/green stain. I have some experience in testing this formula and have never seen this color stain. Typically WD2D stain is brownish or yellowish green.

Sandy

athanasius80 · Mar 27, 2006

Doesn't Foma usually have a bluish base?

sanking · Mar 27, 2006

athanasius80 said:
Doesn't Foma usually have a bluish base?

Now that you mention it, I believe there was some discussion of the blue base of Foma. Just never used it myself so the info did not stick.

The heavy B+F is still very high.

Sandy

Kino · Mar 27, 2006

Most of the Eastern European filmstocks have a blue anti halo backing that washes out with a prewash of plain water.

I know the older Forte stocks had the blue dye...

The combo of blue anti halo dyes and the orange staining, the blue being quite deep and strong, could explain the green stain...

A guess...

Eric Jones · Mar 27, 2006

Hi Donald and others,

I rated the film at 100 and placed my shadow on Zone III, so I'm pretty confident in the exposure being correct. I just happened to have grabbed 2 rolls of the stuff in addition to all the "normal" film I had picked up at Freestyle. I'm going to give it a try with another film and try to rule out development issues/procedures, since I am new to the developer. Thank you everyone for you thoughts.

Eric Jones · Apr 4, 2006

*Update*

I ran one last roll of Arista UltraEdu 100 through W2D2+ and got the same awful results. I swithced over and tried a roll of Tri-X TXP and a roll of Acros to rule out errors on my part, since I'm new to Pyro. Both came out absolutely beautiful with a great yellow/gold stain, nice highlights and all of the other talked about attributes of a Pyro developer and good numbers on the densitometer. Not sure what is up with the UltraEDU (aka: Foma 100) but I have not tried it with any other developer and plan to stick with the more well known films anyway. I'll post some of my curves this weekend for anyone who may want to look them over.

Foto Ludens · Apr 4, 2006

Arista.EDU 100 (Fomapan) has a VERY DARK blue base. It prints through quite easily, though.

I use this film and develop it in 510-Pyro with great results (judged by the print, not the neg appearance).

Hope this helps,

André

Bob F. · Apr 4, 2006

Just an idea... if the blue base is as deep as suggested, might it be worth fixing out a bit of undeveloped leader if you have any left lying about and see what that reads?

Cheers, Bob.

Larry L · Apr 4, 2006

I recently shot of roll of this in 120 along side some old (4+ yrs. out of date) TMax 400 and individually developed them in D76 straight. Immediately noticed the bluish base. Base fog was less than the old TMax so suspect developer is a player in your efforts.

Do not have densitometer capability but my contact prints look better than I expected for such an inexpensive film. Got this film from a friend at work who has also shot a roll in 120 format and processed in D76 straight. Our negatives look comparable. At $1.35+ per roll this stuff isn't bad - really a bargain for some just learning.

Eric Jones · Apr 5, 2006

Andre,

I'm mixing up some 510-Pyro this weekend, just got my TEA in. What color is the stain of the 510-Pyro? Have you tried any alt processes printing with the Foma 100? The reason that I tested it was to actually use the sheet version of the Foma for enlarged negatives from positives that I have. I will also be testing APHS in the 1:500 dilution of 510-Pyro for these enlarged negatives. I was actually attracted to the UltraEdu 100 (Foma) not due to price but because Freestyle stocks it up to 11x14 and it seems real easy to get. But the price does not hurt, especially when you're experimenting.

Foto Ludens · Apr 10, 2006

Eric,

I just got back in town, sorry about the delayed response...

Going off the top of my head, the stain of 510-Pyro is on the orange side of things...

I've never tried alt processes of any type, sorry. But the Foma 100/510-Pyro combo seems to get pretty high densities, so it might work well (I hope I'm not thinking of another film). For what its worth, my time is 9 min, 72 F (I think), with 3 inversions per minute.

good luck,

André

fatboy22 · Apr 10, 2006

Hi ERIC,

I have shot a lot of Foma lately (Arista Ultra) in all speeds 100, 200, and 400 (120 size) and the base of film is very blue. I process in D76 deep tanks total darkness and agitate only once a minute lifting the film up tilting one way and placing back into the tank. My time is 10 minutes 68 degrees for the 100 speed film rated at 100. Sorry not a zone system guy. I really like this film and have had no problems with base fog at any speed. See my recent shots in my gallery.

Jamie

High B+F with AristaEDU Ultra 100 (Foma) with W2D2+

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