Hi

Jon Allen · May 11, 2017

Hello from Manchester UK.
I started off with a Polaroid (still have one, a 680 and love emulsion lifts)when I was about 13 (1983) and was always fascinated by photography from back in the 70,s from family members using 6x6 or the Polaroid camera.
I wish I had not been put off by the teacher at the collage when I went to look at the photography course, who said there was no money in it as a career. I did want a career and earn money but I also wanted to learn the full art of photography. Sadly I didn't take the course as I needed to think of my future.
I still kept taking photos (most have long gone due to fire) and back in 2003 I moved on to digital and took to the art of digital photography and editing. It was a Canon 300D I bought and I still use it today now and then when I have some concept ideas I want to capture. Although I enjoyed digital especially the editing and studio lighting part I still don't feel like a photographer until I have learnt the art of developing.
A few years ago I went back to film as I missed the look of film and also I started to get lazy with my photography and started to get into that mode, I'll fix it in photoshop. . Glad I went back to it as it's slowed me down now and made me think before I pressed the shutter, especially with the price of film these days. My wife doesn't get why I've gone back to film though as she loves my editing, digital concept and portrait work. She doesn't see the look or skill involved with film.

I'm here to improve and learn more about photography and hope I can add something to the forum myself.

lauffray · May 11, 2017

Hi Jon and welcome to apug, you'll learn lots here I'm sure, we have some very knowledgeable members

Jon Allen · May 11, 2017

Thank you Lauffray and hello to you too.

Trail Images · May 11, 2017

Welcome to the APUG community, Jon............

Sirius Glass · May 11, 2017

Welcome to APUG

Kodachromeguy · May 11, 2017

Welcome to APUG! There are plenty of knowledgeable people here who generously share their time.

Jon Allen · May 11, 2017

Many thanks everyone.

I've already experienced people's kind help and time on here Kodachrmeguy

Sewin · May 12, 2017

Welcome Jon from west Wales.

Jon Allen · May 15, 2017

Thank you Sewin

macfred · May 15, 2017

Welcome to APUG, Jon !
Greetings from Germany.

Jon Allen · May 15, 2017

Thank you macfred.

removed account4 · May 15, 2017

hi jon
good to see you here and back using film !

Jon Allen said:
I wish I had not been put off by the teacher at the collage when I went to look at the photography course, who said there was no money in it as a career.

meh, teachers are teachers ... maybe he didn't like seeing people starve ? doing professoinal work is not
ez and is even more brutal these days than it was 20 years ago ..
i can see doing it as a side-job for fun, not really needing to be part of the grind house,
but the last 15-20 years have flooded the market
with a "lowered bar" / " good enough" mentality that it makes it difficult for someone who knows what they are doing to do it ...
a couple of examples ... one from a guy who passed away a handful of years ago named jon cooke,
he was a retired pro and he recounted a story ( from 60+ years ago ) about
landing some sort of a product job where he photographed toilets for a company. and after he spent all his
time and effort and presented the guy who hired him with the finished product
the guy said " thanks but we aren't interested, my nephew just got a new camera and took a photo course in
college so we are letting him do it ... "
another ... moms with cameras who charge $50 or $150 to shoot a wedding or bar/bat mitzvah or event ...
and just giving all the files to the client un-edited on a CD ...
another ... local landmark from 1870 being torn down and the city needs high-end documentary
photography done ( think last rites ) and the architect sends his assistant out with a cellphone
instead of hiring someone trained to document the structure ....
or .... art director-interns for mcD's or coke/pepsi latest ad campaign scouring flickr or instagram for
photography to use in an ad campaign and paying the person $100 to use the photos,
if a pro was hired it might cost 15X that ...
i could go on, but i have a feeling you know where i am going ...

have fun !

Jon Allen · May 15, 2017

Thanks jnanian.
When you look at it that way then yes he did me a favour. But still I wish I'd have gone deeper with learning more about photography. Maybe I took to and was much better at digital photography as it was easier to learn in regards to the developing/digital editing. This time round I want to fully understand analogue photography and be more creative with it from camera to final developed image.

I know what you mean about people being asked to take photos of weddings etc just because they own a camera. When I was on Facebook a while back I would see what people were having done by so called photographers and I used to cringe at the lack of skill and the cheek to call themselves a professional.
For some reason people can't see the quality in a good photo, maybe it's the price that makes them blind to quality and the skill.

Ive earned a little pocket money in the past for work but I never ask, people have come to me and asked me to do a portrait as they know I'm a keen amateur and they will get something different than the norm. I have also had people ask in the past how much I would charge for a portrait session and run a mile when I tell them, maybe because their mate knows someone who can do it for £15 on disc.
I know one thing for sure, that I'll be more than chuffed when I sell an image of someone that I have not only taken but developed myself. The traditional way.

I can't wait to get some images developed and put on here of what I will be taking with the zero 4x5 pinhole camera I have bought and get some CC and guidance on the developing and using the camera better.

Oh, got my safe light and paper cutting board today so I'll try and get the camera loaded tomorrow

Here's a few images of my digital work if anyone is interested.

Cholentpot · May 15, 2017

Jon Allen said:
Thanks jnanian.
When you look at it that way then yes he did me a favour. But still I wish I'd have gone deeper with learning more about photography. Maybe I took to and was much better at digital photography as it was easier to learn in regards to the developing/digital editing. This time round I want to fully understand analogue photography and be more creative with it from camera to final developed image.

I know what you mean about people being asked to take photos of weddings etc just because they own a camera. When I was on Facebook a while back I would see what people were having done by so called photographers and I used to cringe at the lack of skill and the cheek to call themselves a professional.
For some reason people can't see the quality in a good photo, maybe it's the price that makes them blind to quality and the skill.

Ive earned a little pocket money in the past for work but I never ask, people have come to me and asked me to do a portrait as they know I'm a keen amateur and they will get something different than the norm. I have also had people ask how much I would charge for a portrait session and run a mile when I tell them, maybe because their mate knows someone who can do it for £15 on disc.

I can't wait to get some images developed and put on here of what I will be taking with the zero 4x5 pinhole camera I have bought and get some CC and guidance on the developing and using the camera better.

Oh, got my safe light and paper cutting board today so I'll try and get the camera loaded tomorrow

Here's a couple of my digital work if your interested.

View attachment 179192 View attachment 179193 View attachment 179194 View attachment 179195 View attachment 179196 View attachment 179197 View attachment 179198 View attachment 179199 View attachment 179200

Good stuff, keep up the effort and experimentation with film. Don't let the naysayers keep you from trying something strange or downright wrong.

Jon Allen · May 15, 2017

Thanks Cholentpot. I'm really looking forward to it especially the developing even though it's just going to be basic for now. Also looking forward to some portraits with the pinhole camera. I know it's out of range for my flashes I use due to the fstop so I'll be using some continuous lighting and shaping the light that way and see what I come out with. But first I need to find out what look I want from the paper negative and how to control the contrast

Hope you guys have patients for all my future questions for help

removed account4 · May 15, 2017

thanks for posting the images jon
great work you are doing !
i am guessing that you will
see the 2 different media as being
influencial towards one another
both different but similar and your
skills from one overlap to the other.
cholenpot's advice is spot on

good luck with the paper negatives !
john

Jon Allen · May 15, 2017

Thank you John, glad you like them.

I certainly do see the similarities and that both digital and analogue overlap each other and I will always keep in mind that they have there own look and style as well as skill to be mastered. Hopefully I can mix them up somehow someday

Yep I totally agree about cholentpot's advice.

Cholentpot · May 15, 2017

jnanian said:
thanks for posting the images jon
great work you are doing !
i am guessing that you will
see the 2 different media as being
influencial towards one another
both different but similar and your
skills from one overlap to the other.
cholenpot's advice is spot on

good luck with the paper negatives !
john

Jon Allen said:
Thank you John, glad you like them.

I certainly do see the similarities and that both digital and analogue overlap each other and I will always keep in mind that they have there own look and style as well as skill to be mastered. Hopefully I can mix them up somehow someday

Yep I totally agree about cholentpot's advice.

Thanks guys. This place is a wealth of information but it's blunted by 'Don't that, and this is why. I know because I designed that film and process.'

Me: Look, I know developing ECN-2 in expired C-41 at room temperature is not what the guidelines call for but help me out here...is it possible.

X1e7PhilmDesin: Well...why would you do that?

Me: I don't care why. Is it possible?

X1e7PhilmDesin: It's an abomination and wrong. I'm not telling you

Me: Anyone else?

ZZfilmorificZZ: You. Will. Not. Get. Optimal. Results. 11100100 100 10 01

Me: No shift, really?

X1e7PhilmDesin: We must sacrifice him on the alter of FILM!

2 weeks later

Me: I tried it and it worked!

X1e7PhilmDesin: Yes but is it repeatable and would you use it for a client.

Me: I use digital for clients for repeatable results. I shoot film for fun.

Everyone: Ban him! Burn the heretic!

MattKing · May 15, 2017

Welcome:
There are lots of people here who will encourage experimentation. It is just that it is usually a lot more rewarding to experiment when one first understands the "proper" or "accepted" ways of accomplishing things.
If you can reliably accomplish "ordinary" you are much more likely to be able to accomplish "extra-ordinary" when that is what you desire.
Hope you have lots of fun here.
And by the way, most of us mix film and digital at least a little bit, and have no objection to anyone else doing so. We do prefer (and the site rules require) that APUG discussions avoid the digital stuff.

Ricardo Miranda · May 15, 2017

jnanian said:
thanks for posting the images jon
great work you are doing !

Nah!

What this guy posted is a showcase of what is wrong with DIGITAL manipulation.
Look at that poor pirate girl: her face was airbrushed and now it looks like plastic.
And don't even get me started with that woman in red!

If that is considered good "photography", I would like to know what is a bad one!

Jon,
I'm sorry, but I don't like at all your work.
It is just software manipulation.
The only ones that are pleasant are the ones in B&W.
I would have liked better if they were taken on film.

I hope you learn and improve your aesthetic taste.

removed account4 · May 15, 2017

Ricardo Miranda said:
Nah!

What this guy posted is a showcase of what is wrong with DIGITAL manipulation.
Look at that poor pirate girl: her face was airbrushed and now it looks like plastic.
And don't even get me started with that woman in red!

If that is considered good "photography", I would like to know what is a bad one!

Jon,
I'm sorry, but I don't like at all your work.
It is just software manipulation.
The only ones that are pleasant are the ones in B&W.
I would have liked better if they were taken on film.

I hope you learn and improve your aesthetic taste.

sorry none of the images look like plastic or over the top manipulated
i've seen plenty of "film" chromes IDK 25 years back that look exactly the same, heck
look at roger hicks " pro photography " portrait book
... these uploads show that the person who made them knew what they were doing

sorry to say this, ricardo but you are too much.

Ricardo Miranda · May 15, 2017

jnanian said:
look at roger hicks " pro photography " portrait book

Sorry, all the books I have from him are on B&W and none has these sort of images.

jnanian said:
sorry to say this, ricardo but you are too much.

Sorry John, didn't get that one: too much what?

jnanian said:
these uploads show that the person who made them knew what they were doing

Yes, agree with that: he knows how to manipulate software to create "fine art".
That's the feeling I get when I see airbrushed images, especially children. Poor kids! They don't deserved such treatment.

Cholentpot · May 15, 2017

Ricardo Miranda said:
Nah!

What this guy posted is a showcase of what is wrong with DIGITAL manipulation.
Look at that poor pirate girl: her face was airbrushed and now it looks like plastic.
And don't even get me started with that woman in red!

If that is considered good "photography", I would like to know what is a bad one!

Jon,
I'm sorry, but I don't like at all your work.
It is just software manipulation.
The only ones that are pleasant are the ones in B&W.
I would have liked better if they were taken on film.

I hope you learn and improve your aesthetic taste.

I think this was the aesthetic he was trying for. Critique is reserved for things like exposure, subject, balance etc...

To go after one's artistic vision is boorish.

Ricardo Miranda · May 15, 2017

Cholentpot said:
I think this was the aesthetic he was trying for. Critique is reserved for things like exposure, subject, balance etc...

To go after one's artistic vision is boorish.

Well, you are right to a certain point.
If he is trying to pass a message of the type: "look at we are doing to our kids, painting them, dressing them up like dolls", then he has conceived a very strong message.
If hos intention is to warn the viewer to the "horrors" of today's society, he has succeeded in that.
Now, is that his "artistic vision"?

removed account4 · May 15, 2017

Ricardo Miranda said:
Sorry John, didn't get that one: too much what?

too much what ??

maybe you should read your posts again ?

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