Hi from the UK :D

Katier · Dec 20, 2008

Hi folks,

Just joined the site, very interesting. I hadn't done film photography for years until the last month or so when I got involved in a photography module for university. As a result in addition to my DSLR I have a Me Super, Me F ( which I'm treating as another super ) and an A3 ( which I probably won't use ). In addition I have a couple of zoom lenses ( bother 70-210 and some 50mm primes).

My current experiments and adventures include night time photography ( currently just digital but one of my bodys now has some 64 asa tungsten in it ) and black and white.

This :-

Is my favourite B&W shot so far.

One thing I do want to look at is self developing negatives (and E-6 colour reversal). Ultimately both BW and Colour but I really don't know where to start. Darkroom wise the kitchen will have to do and certainly in the forseable future I don't plan on doing the prints, I'll more likely scan the film and work that way.

Any tips and guides about getting started would be appreciated.

Thanks

Kat.

papagene · Dec 20, 2008

Hi ya Kat... welcome to APUG from western Massachusetts USA.

gene

Tom Kershaw · Dec 20, 2008

Hello,

Developing colour film reliably is somewhat equipment depended. However, standard Paterson tanks work fine for black & white film development.

Tom.

Katier · Dec 20, 2008

Thanks Tom,

I got the basics of 'hardware' for developing a film I think (although someone going through them for my peace of mind wouldn't go amiss ) but chemicals are a different matter.

I currently shoot Kodak BW400CN film but would like to change to Ilford ( as it's a british company and decent reputation ) but don't know which films to go for. I'd like something that scans well (I'm guess the BW400CN's orange base doesn't help when scanning) and has a variety of ISO's and of course is easy to home develop.

Tom Kershaw · Dec 20, 2008

The Kodak film you're using is a C-41 process product as you'll be aware. The ILFORD C-41 black & white film is XP2 Super (without an orange base). In terms of conventional black & white films anything from Kodak, ILFORD, or Fuji is going to provide excellent quality and consistency. I use the ILFORD Delta series (120 film) a good deal. Try Ilfotec HC as a starting developer. Fotospeed have some good products as well including their FD10 film developer: www.fotospeed.com

Tom.

Katier · Dec 20, 2008

Thanks again Tom

Would you say going for Delta is better than XP2 Super?

Assume I need other chemicals besides the HC?

Tom Kershaw · Dec 20, 2008

HC is a rather syrupy concentrate so you may be better off with something like Ilfosol-S or Agfa Rodinal. A great advantage of Ilfotec HC is that it lasts for a long time once opened and works with a very wide range of films and characteristics. You can either dilute to make a stock solution or measure the concentrate on a per film basis using a syringe.

Temperature control is important as is making sure your developer solution is not contaminated by stop bath or fixer.

HP5 Plus, FP4 Plus, Pan F Plus, or the Delta films are black & white films, different in structure from XP2 which is fundamentally a colour negative film. If you are developing yourself I would suggest the black & white negative films by a long way. HP5 or FP4 may allow a greater degree of variation in consistency compared to the Delta films. The Delta films should get you less grain for the film speed.

Besides the film developer you will also need a stop bath (some people will disagree and suggest a running water stop) such as Ilfostop, and fixer such as ILFORD Rapid fixer or Hypam.

Silverprint is a good source of photo material supplies via mail order or in person:

www.silverprint.co.uk

Tom

Katier · Dec 21, 2008

Thankyou Tom, much appreciated. Just need my student loan now *smiles*

Tom Kershaw · Dec 21, 2008

Going back to your original post, in my experience one of the more difficult aspects of getting started with darkroom printing is achieving a lightproof space (e.g. building a darkroom) to begin with.

Katier · Dec 21, 2008

Yeah or at least having the room - hence using the kitchen for now although I have just had a lightbulb moment. There is a project we want to do in the house which I could also use as a darkroom. Basically a small storeroom but could double use it.

I'm right in thinking there are bag's available to provide a simple lightproof area for loading the film into the reel and then into the tank?

PhotoJim · Dec 21, 2008

There are such bags. They are called changing bags. Still, any windowless room (a pantry, a storage room, most bathrooms) will do the job with higher convenience.

If you do get a changing bag for this purpose, get the largest you can find. There are even changing tents that are much larger. They are designed for large-format photographers to load their film holders while traveling, but they are also useful for this purpose. Unfortunately the price is fairly significant.

Welcome. I think you'll find yourself to feel right at home here.

Christopher Walrath · Dec 21, 2008

However I use HC110 with great results on Fuji Neopan 400 and TMX-TMY. You're going to get all kinds of answers as to what film/dev combo is the best. What does your local shoip have that you can afford? That's what I would start with. You won't be fixed there for life. You can always change in the future.

Oh, and welcome to the group. What's your gear kit to see if you missed anything.

Katier · Dec 21, 2008

Thankyou

So :-

Darkroom ( got a couple of rooms plus a potential 3rd idea I can darken easy enough - assuming blackbags over the windows is acceptable?)
FP4/HP5 film depending on film speed I want.
Ilfosol-S
Ilfostop
ILFORD Rapid fixer
Paterson tank
Measuring jug and couple of shringes

Does that sound like about right?

PhotoJim · Dec 21, 2008

And a thermometer.

Black bags will do as long as you can see absolutely nothing in the room if all lights are off. Turn out all the lights, and wait about 3 minutes. If you can see anything at all, the room is not dark enough for film processing (at least until the film is in the tank).

Katier · Dec 21, 2008

Christopher Walrath said:
What's your gear kit to see if you missed anything.

As in Camera equipment or darkroom?

Former is :-

Me Super Body
Me F Body
A3 Body
1 PKA 50mm primes, 2 PK 50mm primes (two 1.7's and a 2.0)
two 70-210 zooms
18-55 zoom ( this is a AF digital so wider angle if used on a film body - could only use on the A3 as it lacks the aperture ring ).
70-300 zoom ( again AF digital but has aperture ring so can use it on any body. Can use on the A3 unlike the MF lenses both of which are straight K's)
PKA 2x teleconverter.
3 tripods (1 travel, 2 full size, one lacks the ability to go portrait ).
a generic chinon flash.
and dare I say it a DSLR body (very handy where I don't have much time - which can often occur for university work).

I want to get a wide angle - something like s 28mm.

Latter is non-existant right now

catem · Dec 21, 2008

Hi Kat,

If you're certain you don't want to print in the darkroom, but want to go the scanner route, XP2 Super is an excellent film to use. You want a different result in your negative for scanning or for darkroom printing - scanning appreciates a flatter negative, avoiding high contrast, especially with blown highlights/shadows. A punchier negative will print better in the darkroom. If you don't want to stick with the chromogenics, then you're better off making sure you tailor your negatives especially for scanning - so avoid the higher contrast films/processes. I'd also avoid grainier film - I love grainy film, but not for scanning - the results often do not live up to analogue, as grain doesn't translate to digital very well. The results you get - apart from with XP2 or another chromogenic - will also depend heavily on the type of scanner you use and the software you use with it. XP2 Super should work on pretty much any film scanner. You can also use Digital Ice, which helps with cleaning up the neg, with chromogenic film if you want to, but not with regular b&w film.

I think your decision would depend a lot on what kind of output you're predicting - I mean quantity-wise - or whether you want to get into C-41 processing - or whether you like the idea of experimenting with the other films anyway.

Good luck,

regards,
Cate

Tom Kershaw · Dec 21, 2008

Cate,

I've had excellent results scanning the ILFORD Delta films, developed for printing with an enlarger.

Tom.

Katier · Dec 21, 2008

In the future I'd love to print in the darkroom and experiment but initially I just want to turn round my films quicker and have better control over them ( my last BW film wasn't printed too well - the prints messed up and they clipped a frame when cutting the negative ). I'm assuming ( correct if I'm wrong ) that printing in a darkroom instantly adds a LOT of cash to the bill compared to just developing the negs.

Ultimatly I'd like to do E-6 as well as black and white. Rather than confusing things I think it's better to stick to two processes rather than go to C-41 too unless there is a good reason to. Reason for E-6 is I want to use Fuji 64T for some things.

Tom Kershaw · Dec 21, 2008

I don't think you'd make much of a cost savings processing E6 at home, or rather I wouldn't decide to process E6 at home purely on the basis of cost reduction. However, black & white is very worthwhile to process at home as you have far greater control of the process. E6 and C-41 development is uniform across film types for the most part.

Tom.

catem · Dec 21, 2008

Tom Kershaw said:
Cate,

I've had excellent results scanning the ILFORD Delta films, developed for printing with an enlarger.

Tom.

Hi Tom,

I didn't say that wasn't possible

Regards,
Cate

Tom Kershaw · Dec 21, 2008

Sure,

I just wanted to make clear to Cat that the situation re scanning films is not definite.

Tom.

Katier · Dec 21, 2008

Tom Kershaw said:
I don't think you'd make much of a cost savings processing E6 at home, or rather I wouldn't decide to process E6 at home purely on the basis of cost reduction. However, black & white is very worthwhile to process at home as you have far greater control of the process. E6 and C-41 development is uniform across film types for the most part.

Tom.

E6 is more of a time thing. For example right now I have a project I need to finish for Jan 5th. Given the time of the year it is I'll have to do it on Digital as there is no guarantee that any slide film will get processed and returned to me by then ( plus time to post process the images ).

roy · Dec 21, 2008

Welcome Kat.

Tom Kershaw · Dec 21, 2008

E6 is more of a time thing. For example right now I have a project I need to finish for Jan 5th. Given the time of the year it is I'll have to do it on Digital as there is no guarantee that any slide film will get processed and returned to me by then ( plus time to post process the images ).

I process C-41 in my personal darkroom using a Jobo ATL-2300 and the Fujihunt X-Press C-41 kit. If you do decide to process E6 then try the Kodak E6 five litre kit, rather than a third party option. http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/shop/categories/colour-film-chemicals/

Temperature control is very important in colour processing and an important consideration in terms of implementation with a hand line. The figures Firstcall give for rolls of film per kit depend on how you process, whether you use the chemicals one shot etc. For example in my Jobo I would expect to get between 25 and 50 rolls out of the kit.

Tom.

Katier · Dec 21, 2008

Thanks again Tom, something for me to the think about

Hi from the UK :D

Membership Council

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency