Hi again.... Fomaspeed V312 and Foma filter question

hoganlia

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second post today.... I don't know if there is a limit.

I have bought some 5x7 and 8x10 Fomaspeed Variant 312 which was difficult to come by for a while. I had a shoot where I think a matte finish would be nice... it was not to be. Now I can at least experiment.

I have never printed matte before and after reading a few of the comments here on Fomaspeed 312 (there are not many) I decided to buy Foma Filters as well as a member mentioned they slow the exposure times a little. The filters are different from Ilford both in colour and the combination approach which I have not heard of before.

The combinationes and in the three groups Y, yellow, M1, light magenta, and M2, deep magenta. The instruction sheet is a little unclear when it deals with mixing. I understand if the combinations refer to using either one or both of the filers in each group. Am I right in thinking that combining two filters from different goups is not possible.

Looking forward to your wisdom

thanks

Joe
 

Don_ih

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hoganlia said:
I don't know if there is a limit.
Click to expand...

No. Ask away,



It suggests to not bother combining different kinds of filters. The M1 filter combined with the M2 would likely be the same as M2 on its own with a slight need to extend exposure. You can see what combining them would do - or combining a Y and an M (1 or 2). Y and M will somewhat "cancel" each other out.

It's pretty similar to how a colour head changes contrast. You tend to not have the Y dial above zero if you want higher contrast and you tend to not have the M dial above zero if you want lower contrast.
 

FotoD

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I suppose you could combine M1 and M2 and get a contrast grade between 2xM1 and M2. But it would be a relatively small change of contrast, so probably not very useful.

This is from Fomas datasheet.



And here is the same chart for Ilfords filters.

 

koraks

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Don_ih said:
The M1 filter combined with the M2 would likely be the same as M2 on its own with a slight need to extend exposure.
Click to expand...

No, they will act as a stronger magenta filter. Compare to dialing in e.g. 50CC M on a dichroic enlarger as opposed to e.g. 40CC. The numbers will vary depending on the exact density of the filters. But stacking these filters will in fact affect grade and not just exposure time. So adding M1 to M2 will get you somewhere in-between 'normal' and 'hard'. Whether that's a meaningful nuance in regular printing, is another matter of course. So I'm with @FotoD on this.

hoganlia said:
I decided to buy Foma Filters as well
Click to expand...
I've had several sets of Foma filters over the years. They never saw much use. Firstly, the Ilford Multigrade filters are often available in used but good condition at a reasonable price - I got multiple sets 'for free' when picking up other darkroom stuff. The Ilford filters I found more intuitive to use. It's illustrated by the table posted above by @FotoD. Secondly, all the enlargers I owned all had some way of filtering color - either they were regular dichroic enlargers, or they were equipped with a variable contrast head (in my case an Ilford 500 unit). I found there's very little advantage to using under-the-lens filters of the enlarger itself is already equipped with filters. I personally never experienced any problems with movement or shake manipulating the filters on a dichroic color head (pretty much the only argument against that approach that I'm aware of).

hoganlia said:
Am I right in thinking that combining two filters from different goups is not possible.
Click to expand...
It's possible, just not very useful.


What kind of enlarger do you use @hoganlia?
 

koraks

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If the filter affects exposure time in a meaningful way and it's a magenta filter, then it's evident that it will also affect contrast. Whether the difference is relevant depends on how precisely someone wants to control effective paper grade.
 
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hoganlia

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Thanks for the info. I've never used a color head but the point is interesting.
 
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hoganlia

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That's what I was wondering but from other comments here it doesn't see to be common.

Thanks for the comment
 
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hoganlia

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I should have given the enlarger info at the beginning. It's a Meopta Opemus 6. I bought the filters cheaply but more than anything to lengthen exposure time for dodging and burning... give that Foma paper is said to be fast. I admit the Ilford system seems a lot more "user-friendly" and I can always do with friends.

Like the people here who help out so willingly.

Many thanks
 
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hoganlia

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koraks said:
If the filter affects exposure time in a meaningful way and it's a magenta filter, then it's evident that it will also affect contrast. Whether the difference is relevant depends on how precisely someone wants to control effective paper grade.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... food for thought!
 
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hoganlia

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koraks said:
Is it equipped with a color head? You could use that for B&W printing as well. But the Foma filters will work too of course.
Click to expand...
Black & White only. I'm concentrating on that as much as possible in my photography asa well but only printing in B&W. I shoot some colour and develop, scan and editi with Negative Lab Prfo for that.
Partly it's a question of cost, but also I don't want to expand my choices until I at least can say I am "confident" with the process.
 
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hoganlia

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koraks said:
Not sure if you understand what I asked; I intended to inquire whether the Opemus enlarger you are using has dichroic C, M and Y filters.
Click to expand...

no. just a standard B&W head with no built in filters. I have a filter tray above the condensor. Up till now I have used only Ilford geletine MG filters
 

MattKing

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Both my current enlarger light source and my previous one have dichroic filters designed for black and white paper contrast control.
Every once in a while I have a need to supplement that control with the highest contrast filter from a PolyMax filter set - Kodak's version of the Ilford type of filters.
It tends to filter out just a little bit more of the green light that can sneak past the dichroic filters in the head(s).
But unless that supplemental filter blocks more of that green light than the filters already in place, it won't make much difference to contrast.
If, however, you combine in-head filters with below the lens filters, it can ease the ability to switch filtration for small amounts of burning and dodging when employing split grade techniques.
As an example, if the in-head filtration is for grade 2 contrast, it can be convenient to burn using grade 5 under the lens in one area of the print and then burn burn using grade 0 under the lens in another area of the print. The resulting exposure in those areas where you did those burns ends up being a combination of the over-all grade 2 exposure plus the burns. you can increase that affect by dodging the grade 2 exposure in the areas that you plan to subsequently burn, but it takes a fine hand to do it unobtrusively.
 

Don_ih

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I can really only hit about Grade 4 with my Chromega colour head on Ilford paper. Need to use under-the-lens filters to get higher. Not sure about Foma (Foma is too hard to get).
 
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