I've been reading about Stand Development, and one "expert" suggests that one important trick is to have steel reels with their rounded edges, and therefore my treasured Paterson and especially Samigon reels are so much garbage. Okay. So Hewes seem to be the standard metal reels and about all that's available today. Check. Got that or can soon enough. Question is whether to continue using these in the wonderful Paterson tanks... yes, they always leak, but they're here, they work and I understand them. They work in daylight. The alternative for not much $'s is to ebay some Honeywell / Nikor tanks. But of course, I DON'T know how to use those, and whether they work for changing chems in daylight. Any input on a simple matter like this would be enormously appreciated. Thank you!!!
Hewes reels
-
A
- Thread starter JWMster
- Start date
Recent Classifieds
-
For Sale $390 Nikon 500mm f4 P ais ed (I think that's all the labels?)
- Started by Gram Nylén
-
For Sale Tanar 50mm f2 ltm lens
- Started by Gram Nylén
-
For Sale NEW FUJIFILM Neopan Acros 100 Roll and Sheet Film Expired 2016-2019
- Started by opPaulT
-
For Sale NIKON NIKKOR 105mm f/2.5 Non Ai (MINT)
- Started by Acere
-
For Sale Transposing Frames for stereo photography, 45x107mm ("châssis alterneur")
- Started by Manual Camera
Forum statistics
Paterson tanks need the centre column to be light tight and the Hewes reels won't fit around that column.
Do you believe everything you read on the 'net?
If so, I have a bridge I've been trying to sell forever.
- Leigh
If so, I have a bridge I've been trying to sell forever.
- Leigh
MattKing
Moderator
You won't be able to use Hewes steel reels in a Paterson tank - they won't fit on the centre column.
The Honeywell/Nikor tanks, or for that matter any normal tank designed for any standard steel reel, work fine and are certainly daylight tanks.
Each type of tank has its own peculiarities, but once you figure them out, they all work well.
I'm not a fan of stand development, so you should bear that in mind when you consider the following.
The so called "expert" is likely full of hot air.
The Honeywell/Nikor tanks, or for that matter any normal tank designed for any standard steel reel, work fine and are certainly daylight tanks.
Each type of tank has its own peculiarities, but once you figure them out, they all work well.
I'm not a fan of stand development, so you should bear that in mind when you consider the following.
The so called "expert" is likely full of hot air.
Well... you're saving me a bunch of aggravation. I understand the anathema some feel to Stand-D, and even the rather natural distrust of the opinions of others. For my part, it's worth a shot, and this helps. Thanks! FWIW, I'll add simply that I've already bought and sold that bridge at a profit a few times.... maybe not here, but enough to trust myself. As they say in my business, for every fool who buys, there's a fool who sells. It's a difference of opinion that makes any exchange happen, and the humbling tidbit is that usually both parties are very satisfied. The only explanation is that yes, mileage definitely varies. Thanks!
Yes
This is presumably someone looking at the Hewes and assuming that somehow because the actual spirals are rounded rather than square in cross-section, and therefore the flow caused by natural convection in the tank will be different, and so that will somehow therefore eliminate the risk of bromide drag or uneven development, or both.
Hmm.
But, if you really want to spend all that money on Hewes reels, I'm pretty sure they make a version that is specifically for Paterson tanks. Easy enough to check their website for details I guess.
Those do not seem like very expert opinions (I do not mean you)
Hewes do a specific reel to fit the patterson centre column.
Maybe the source is authoritative, maybe he's not. Dunno. Wrote and published a book on Stand Development though (see: http://www.blurb.com/b/533375-iridescent-light ). Beyond that... your guess is as good as mine. But yes, specifically dealing with the cited issues of flow. Something to it? Dunno. I love my Paterson tank - though I use Samigon's plastic reels 'cause they're even easier.
A self-published Blurb book is a bit like a blog: anyone can write one.
If his book cites reproducible tests which can demonstrate the advantages he claims, that's great.
I'd expect that if it does, he must also have access to laboratories and skilled technicians who can accurately observe and measure changes in flow within the tank under defined conditions, and produce densitometry data that show the improved results on actual negatives.
The cost of engaging a commercial lab to do those tests ... is probably not covered by the sales of his book, even at a (pretty steep) $43 a pop.
If his book cites reproducible tests which can demonstrate the advantages he claims, that's great.
I'd expect that if it does, he must also have access to laboratories and skilled technicians who can accurately observe and measure changes in flow within the tank under defined conditions, and produce densitometry data that show the improved results on actual negatives.
The cost of engaging a commercial lab to do those tests ... is probably not covered by the sales of his book, even at a (pretty steep) $43 a pop.
Uh... btw, also available at $7. Yes the guy has a high opinion of himself. Seems to be a debilitating side effect of "creative genius". Then again, there's a thread here on the lack of profitability of self-published books, so I wouldn't over state that case. Yet I've seen more than one other commercial photographer cite that book... so there you are. I don't (pretend to) know more than that.
To get back to the original question, not having used metal... I'm curious whether the fabled Honeywell Nikor tanks are similar to Paterson in terms of daylight use after loading? From the photos, they don't look like it.
To get back to the original question, not having used metal... I'm curious whether the fabled Honeywell Nikor tanks are similar to Paterson in terms of daylight use after loading? From the photos, they don't look like it.
The Nikor type tanks are similar to Paterson in that all processing steps take place in daylight after they are loaded. There is a light trap in the lid that allows the tank to be filled and emptied in light, no center core is needed. As with the Paterson tanks there is a separate lid to close things off for inversion agitation.
All stainless reels are made with round wires (at least, all that I've ever encountered). The wire on the Hewes reels is a little thicker than most, which makes them a little more robust, and easier to load, but they are not unique otherwise.
All stainless reels are made with round wires (at least, all that I've ever encountered). The wire on the Hewes reels is a little thicker than most, which makes them a little more robust, and easier to load, but they are not unique otherwise.
Thanks! That's helpful. That's exactly what I need to know. Much appreciated. On eBay, these things are waaaaay cheaper than my Pattersons were, too.
If you're working with 35mm, the Hewes 35mm reels are especially nice compared to all other stainless reels. Learning to load stainless reels can be a bit of a challenge, as they are loaded from the center and you wind the film on vs "walking" it on from the outside as you do with plastic reels.
The Hewes reels have a clip in the center that engages the end sprocket holes that help for keeping the film aligned in the spool, which is important so that the film ends up on the two spirals evenly. The other advantage is their sturdy-ness, the wire on a 36 exposure reel is pretty thin, and is bent easily if the reel is dropped on a hard surface. Once the reel is bent it can be very difficult, if not impossible to load, and significant bending can be hard to see.
All that is a round-about way of saying if your budget can stand it, for a noob, it's probably worthwhile to buy a new Hewes reel then a second-hand tank to use it (them) in, rather than risking getting a damaged used reel and the resulting frustrations of trying to use it.
The Hewes reels have a clip in the center that engages the end sprocket holes that help for keeping the film aligned in the spool, which is important so that the film ends up on the two spirals evenly. The other advantage is their sturdy-ness, the wire on a 36 exposure reel is pretty thin, and is bent easily if the reel is dropped on a hard surface. Once the reel is bent it can be very difficult, if not impossible to load, and significant bending can be hard to see.
All that is a round-about way of saying if your budget can stand it, for a noob, it's probably worthwhile to buy a new Hewes reel then a second-hand tank to use it (them) in, rather than risking getting a damaged used reel and the resulting frustrations of trying to use it.
Last edited:
I second this.
I'd never give up my Hewes steel reels. They practically load themselves.
MattKing
Moderator
Interesting - I've never seen one, or a listing for one.
I've seen a reference for Hewes reels to fit in JOBO tanks, but never Paterson (note the single "t").
Are they a "custom" order item?
MattKing
Moderator
To the OP:
I probably should have asked this first. Are you talking about 35mm film, or about 120?
The Hewes reels for 120 are also incredibly well made, but from my perspective they aren't any easier to load than other brands of 120 stainless steel reels. And while I can and do load no-name 35mm steel reels with a fair amount of ease, loading 120 film is far easier on the Samigon/Arista/AP reels than it is for any other type of reel, including the Hewes 120 reels.
I probably should have asked this first. Are you talking about 35mm film, or about 120?
The Hewes reels for 120 are also incredibly well made, but from my perspective they aren't any easier to load than other brands of 120 stainless steel reels. And while I can and do load no-name 35mm steel reels with a fair amount of ease, loading 120 film is far easier on the Samigon/Arista/AP reels than it is for any other type of reel, including the Hewes 120 reels.
they are available from this place in the UK so i don't think they are a special order. thanks for the spelling correction. http://www.thedarkroom.co.uk/tradit...35mm-with-1-inch-core-for-paterson-tanks.html
MattKing
Moderator
Thanks - I'm always learning things on APUG.
I've never seen them in any North American location, but that is the case with a fair bit of darkroom stuff that originates in the UK.
I have used Honeywell/Nikor tanks, including FreeStyles version, with Hewes reels. This combination works well, but some tanks leak a little.
I binned off (well, still have them but don't use them any more) my Paterson tanks a few months ago and bought a few different sized used SS ones, because I got absolutely fed up with the auto reels jamming up mid roll despite meticulously cleaning the sodding things... Yes, I tried everything including graphite...
If you have never used a steel reel before loading one takes a bit of practice, but can become really easy to do.
Have a look on Youtube as there are several ways of loading them, but also sacrifice an old expired or camera test film to practice. The way I do it with a changing bag is to pull and curve the film from the cassette very slightly while rolling the reel, and then gently pulling and pushing it backwards and forwards every other rotation. The more film on the reel, the more it will move and if it doesn't, it may have kinked off of one of the spirals. In a darkroom with a bench, once you have it clipped on, you can literally push the film onto the reel as you roll it across the bench.
As for leaking tanks, the Nikor ones were all apparently made to have an individual matching lid mostly because of the nature of stainless steel, so no 2 tanks are exactly the same. If you put a different Nikor lid on, it may well not fit and leak. Leaks can be stopped by using electrical PVC tape around the seam. Although if you know how to metalwork, some gentle adjustments with a shoemakers anvil and copper hammer can sort this. The rubber type lids seal well when they are new, but can perish over time and start to leak.
Bent reel? Fairly easy to straighten out using long nosed pliers and a chamois leather so you don't scratch it. Measure against a good one, or use the practice film to check the spacing particularly on the outer parts of the reel.
You can also bung them in the dishwasher!
If you have never used a steel reel before loading one takes a bit of practice, but can become really easy to do.
Have a look on Youtube as there are several ways of loading them, but also sacrifice an old expired or camera test film to practice. The way I do it with a changing bag is to pull and curve the film from the cassette very slightly while rolling the reel, and then gently pulling and pushing it backwards and forwards every other rotation. The more film on the reel, the more it will move and if it doesn't, it may have kinked off of one of the spirals. In a darkroom with a bench, once you have it clipped on, you can literally push the film onto the reel as you roll it across the bench.
As for leaking tanks, the Nikor ones were all apparently made to have an individual matching lid mostly because of the nature of stainless steel, so no 2 tanks are exactly the same. If you put a different Nikor lid on, it may well not fit and leak. Leaks can be stopped by using electrical PVC tape around the seam. Although if you know how to metalwork, some gentle adjustments with a shoemakers anvil and copper hammer can sort this. The rubber type lids seal well when they are new, but can perish over time and start to leak.
Bent reel? Fairly easy to straighten out using long nosed pliers and a chamois leather so you don't scratch it. Measure against a good one, or use the practice film to check the spacing particularly on the outer parts of the reel.
You can also bung them in the dishwasher!
Oh, and to answer the original question properly, yes, they have light traps in so are daylight tanks, and a single reel of 35mm takes approx 250ml of soup instead of the near 300ml of the Patersons!
| Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links. To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here. |
PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:  |