Help with the Paterson 5-reel

Alright . . . . .

I have previously used the Paterson 2-reel tank with consistent and pleasing results, but I need some help in using a Paterson 5-reel . . .

Last night was the first time I used the Paterson 5-reel, and, after viewing my underdeveloped 35mm negatives (way too much transparency in the negative) was highly disappointed. I must be doing something wrong. Would love any comments/insights. I will describe my process as best I can to help pin-point any problems.

Yesterday, using one Patterson 5-reel tank and one Patterson 2-reel tank, I developed 7 rolls of 35mm Arista.edu 100 B&W film in the recommended 1:9 Arista liquid developer. I used the same developer from the same mixed batch. I developed the Patterson 5-reel first.

I began by quickly pouring the developer into the 5-reel Patterson tank. I topped of the tank (some developer pushed up through the top of the tank) to ensure that the developer would cover all 5 reels. I dislodged the bubbles by hitting the tank on a hard service, and inverted the tank 12 times (6 downs/6 ups) in 30 seconds. Every 30 seconds, I did 4 inversions (2 downs/ 2 ups) in about 8 seconds. After the recommended developing time was up, I quickly dumped out the developer, and finished the dev. process.

I used this same method, time, and developer (as always) for my 2-reel tank last night and the negatives were fine.

My process for the 5-reel apparently needs to change!

Since I am so accustomed to the paterson 2-reel "feel," I intuitively brought those patterns to the Paterson 5-reel. I am guessing my inversions were too rapid (longer tank than the 2-reel).

PLEASE give me some feed back as I do not want to scrap 5 more reels!! Here are some other questions.

1. I got my Paterson 5 reel off of eBay. No instructions. Can anyone point to some instructions on-line?

2. How should the developing process differ with the 5-reel comparted to the 2-reel?

3. Is it ok to "top-off" the tank? I feel like there should be a little air in the tank to help the liquid move around a little more aggressively? Don't know.

4. How long should each inversion with Paterson 5-reel last?

5. Could there be some residue in 5-reel paterson tank that weakens the effect of the developer? Would this be a long shot in being one of the problems? I did wash out the tank with running hot water days before using it. Would that have done the trick?

6. Wish I could go back and further develop these underdeveloped negs. Any other tricks besides selenium toner?

7. Would it be a really bad idea to re-roll these 5 underdevelop negs back on to reels, place in the paterson 5-reel, and let it soak in Selenium? (Putting it in a tray would be a pain). Would selenium wash off the reels/tank easily in running water or would it hose future use of the tank?

This morning, I did read the "Suspicions with the Patterson 5-reel" thread and found it helpful, but let me know what ya'll think about the above items.

Thanks.

Dave

Hello Dave,

first I must admit I only used Kindermann and Jobo tanks in 4 or 5 film size, I do have a Paterson System 4 tank, but it is the 2 film size.

No. 3: there should be some air in the tank otherwise liquid might not move fast enough, if you turn upside down a tank the air wants to get back to the top moving the liquid, in 100% filled tank, which air wants to move? I would recommend a testfill to see how much developer you'll need.

No. 5: check again for residues, a solution of warm-hot sodium sulfite a.k.a. HCA works well to remove residues from tank and spirals.

Instructions: check www.patersonphotographic.com

I assume you made no mistakes with dilution so it looks like developer exhaustion to me.
Having a look at my System 4 tank I wounder how you managed to get liquid out of it when putting on the lid, as there is plenty of room. Are you using a different/older Paterson tank?

Sorry, if my reply does not you.

Regards,

Wolfram

I makes no sense that it works in one tank and not the other. I use the 1 reel, 3 reel, and 5 reel Pat tanks. I mean 120 reels. The 5'er is giant and holds 2.5 liters or more. I use the same process for all and the film comes out the same. Make sure you have some air space in the tank so you get some bubbles for agitation. I once ran the 5'er with only 1.5 liters of solution and it still worked. My method is about the same as yours, as everyones. I invert only once, but every 15 seconds, but this is because of PMK.

1. I got my Paterson 5 reel off of eBay. No instructions. Can anyone point to some instructions on-line?

IIRC the instruction sheet is the same for all tanks.

2. How should the developing process differ with the 5-reel comparted to the 2-reel?

It shouldn't.

3. Is it ok to "top-off" the tank? I feel like there should be a little air in the tank to help the liquid move around a little more aggressively? Don't know.

I'd have thought you need some air as you suggest, to allow the developer to circulate.

4. How long should each inversion with Paterson 5-reel last?

I did it slightly slower than for a 2-reel tank on the grounds that all that liquid sloshing about, over-do it and it'll do damage...

5. Could there be some residue in 5-reel paterson tank that weakens the effect of the developer? Would this be a long shot in being one of the problems? I did wash out the tank with running hot water days before using it. Would that have done the trick?

Can't think of any such residue.

6. Wish I could go back and further develop these underdeveloped negs. Any other tricks besides selenium toner?

Try a print first - it's amazing how thin a neg can be before you need more than grade 5 paper (I speak from personal foul-up experience...)

7. Would it be a really bad idea to re-roll these 5 underdevelop negs back on to reels, place in the paterson 5-reel, and let it soak in Selenium? (Putting it in a tray would be a pain). Would selenium wash off the reels/tank easily in running water or would it hose future use of the tank?

Dunno...

I've used my 5-reel tank only twice (I normally use the Jobo). Used everything the same as for my 2-reel tank (except two inversions every minute instead of three every minute): Developed fine.

Good luck, Bob.