Help with shutter speed in low light situation.

alroldan12 · Sep 30, 2009

Hello,

This is my first post (though I been a member for a little while). I am fairly new to MF and I am shooting an event for a friend this weekend. I am anticipating having to deal with low light situations (indoors, sunset, etc). Also, I am only able to use available light.

My question is: What is the minimum shutter speed to avoid motion blur? I shoot 645 and my lenses are all prime (55mm,80mm and 150mm) my film will be Portra ISO 400 and 800.

Thanks a lot!

Axel

bobwysiwyg · Sep 30, 2009

What sort of an event and what type of motion are you referring to?

alroldan12 · Sep 30, 2009

Portraits for my friend and his girlfriend and either camera shake or subject motion. I guess what I need to know is if the rule for 35mm (reciprocal of the focal length) also applies to MF.

Thanks!

Axel

Christopher Walrath · Sep 30, 2009

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You want to avoid any shutter speeds lower than 125 for the short lenses and 250 for the long. Pushing film in processing would be an option although I don't think push Portra works too well. You might try FP5 or TMZ and push that. It's Black and white but definitely doable.

John Koehrer · Sep 30, 2009

You can get by with the 1/fl if you're careful. Possibly easier with MF than 35 because the neg size should make it more forgiving. For an edge you might consider a monopod.

Slixtiesix · Sep 30, 2009

Yes try to take a monopod or small tripod with you. People often overestimate the ability to shoot hand held in low light conditions.
Best regards, Benjamin

alroldan12 · Sep 30, 2009

Thanks everyone! I forgot to mention that I'll be mainly hand holding my camera but I'll keep my tripod handy.

eddym · Sep 30, 2009

A lot depends on whether your 645 is an slr with a vibration-inducing mirror or a rangefinder. TLR's are easily handholdable at slower speeds than SLR's, but most are not 645's. I'd recommend the monopod and good breath control with a smooth release. And avoid long lenses.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 30, 2009

John Koehrer said:
You can get by with the 1/fl if you're careful. Possibly easier with MF than 35 because the neg size should make it more forgiving. For an edge you might consider a monopod.

Good advise! Strictly speaking, you need a tripod for any exposures longer than 1/250s, but practically speaking, I second John's advise.

wiltw · Sep 30, 2009

The rule of thumb of 1/FL was invented originally for medium format, and the world forgot to modify the formula for the new 'miniature' 135 format. When dSLRs came out with smaller frames, the world suddenly woke up to the need to modify the rule of thumb to 1/ (FL * 1.6) for the APS-C format size.

Use 1/75 for hand holding rule of thumb with 75mm normal lens. I used that same rule of thumb succesfully for covering many weddings with available light.

Toffle · Sep 30, 2009

I might have missed this, but I don't see which camera you are using. You can generally shoot at least one stop slower (or would that be faster? ) if you are using a WLF. That is a much more stable shooting grip. I have achieved quite acceptable sharpness with my Rollei at 1/15. I've seen quite a few claims (bragging?) of 1/8 or slower, but I don't think I could go that slow myself. Shooting from the hip like that can be quite enjoyable, and often your subjects can be more relaxed that when you have a camera pressed to your face.

paul ron · Sep 30, 2009

Mirror induced vibration is not a problem in a well maintained camera. It's not holdoing the camera steady long enough that induces the vibrations in MF.

Since the mirror comes up first, then the shutter fires, most newbies tend to relax once they hear that mirror slap, not realizing they have to wait just a milisec more for the shutter to fire.

SO be patient, watch your breathing, use a good strap that cranks the camera in as you hold it to your eye to fire off the shot. More like shooting a rifle than a camera and your shots will be just fine with a bit of practice.

alroldan12 · Oct 1, 2009

Thanks again for all the good posts. I shoot with a Mamiya 645AF.

keithwms · Oct 1, 2009

There isn't a single answer, really, alroldan12, it depends how much you will enlarge the print and your technique. I also use the 645AF, and I did some low light work with pro z at EI 1600, using the 80/1.9 lens, and I found ~1/20 quite doable. I am not sure where the 1/FL 'rule' comes from; my own experience is that it is quite pessimistic, but maybe it is a good starting popint for beginners.

LucyS · Oct 1, 2009

If the background being in focus doesn't matter, I'd suggest a wide aperture. This would give you more shutter speed. When I took some portraits with my Bronica SQ-A, I focused, adjusted the exposure and had the mirror up just before pressing the shutter release to prevent vibration movement from the camera.

Ria · Oct 1, 2009

I believe that the 1/fl rule also presumes that the photographer has had sufficient rest and has not had an overabundance of caffeine.

Chazzy · Oct 1, 2009

John Koehrer said:
You can get by with the 1/fl if you're careful. Possibly easier with MF than 35 because the neg size should make it more forgiving. For an edge you might consider a monopod.

I agree. Medium and large format negatives are less magnified in printing than miniature format negatives, so what works for 35mm ought to work at least as well or better for the larger negatives. That said, I prefer to keep the shutter speed fairly high, in lieu of a tripod.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 1, 2009

paul ron said:
Mirror induced vibration is not a problem in a well maintained camera. It's not holdoing the camera steady long enough that induces the vibrations in MF.

Since the mirror comes up first, then the shutter fires, most newbies tend to relax once they hear that mirror slap, not realizing they have to wait just a milisec more for the shutter to fire.

SO be patient, watch your breathing, use a good strap that cranks the camera in as you hold it to your eye to fire off the shot. More like shooting a rifle than a camera and your shots will be just fine with a bit of practice.

Really? It takes a typical human being about 0.2 s to react to anything, that's 200 ms or 1/5 s. By the time I hear the mirror and try to react, everything is already over. Why wait?

I think the issue is not holding the camera steady long enough. The issue is not holding the camera steady, period. Some kind of camera support will help.

bdial · Oct 1, 2009

Even if you don't have a tripod or monopod available, or don't care to have one along, there are many ways to find extra support to hold the camera steady, though sometimes it will limit your shooting positions or angles.
Lean against a wall, put the camera against a wall. Shoot while sitting at a table with both elbows on the table. Place the camera on a horizontal surface, like a table or low wall, if you need to adjust the angle use your wallet or part of its contents. etc.

Help with shutter speed in low light situation.

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