Help with deciding what chemistry is right for me

MCB18 · Jun 3, 2023

Hi!

I’m currently thinking about restocking on chems, but I want to think a lot more about what I get this time instead of just going to the shop and getting whatever chems they have there.

The name of the game is longevity. I don’t print or process super often, but I do want to be able to process stuff without worrying about my developer dying (which I believe has just happened to me and ruined a roll).

I have some thoughts about it already, but getting more opinions couldn’t hurt.

Film developer: I like the idea of a 1 shot developer for film, and I have used HC-110 and liked the results I got. So, I’ll probably pick up a liter of FPPs equivalent.
Paper developer/B&W reversal first dev: unsure what developer would fit this roll. Ilford Multigrade seems like it would fit the bill, shelf life seems long, and dilutions of 1+14 mean I can use very little chemistry per print. Please let me know your experience.
Stop bath: Lasts pretty much forever, not super worried about it.
Fixer: heard that Hypam fixer lasts basically forever in a low oxygen environment, and it’s a good deal. Any other suggestions?

Finally, storage, do I get a bunch of small bottles to store the chems in? Do I look for storage bladders like for wine? Do I not worry about it?

Thanks!

Sirius Glass · Jun 3, 2023

I have used XTOL and replenished XTOL for years. The last decade I have been using only replenished XTOL which properly stored can last for years. Why XTOL? You will be glad that you asked!

cliveh · Jun 3, 2023

D76 at 1:1

Paul Howell · Jun 3, 2023

I do not shoot as much film as I had in the past and moved to one shot chemistry. For film I use Rodinal clone for slower film like Tmax 100 and Foma 100, for faster film I use HC 110, dilution E it is the newer version, not sure if it will last as long the older version. For paper I use Freestyle house brand which is rebranded Clayton as I get it in smaller size. I use my old glass bottles to store stop bath, fix, and clearing agent. I use to keep DK 50, MCM 100 and D76 on hand, I do miss MCM 100, but at $48 a gallon I would rather buy more film.

AnselMortensen · Jun 3, 2023

I have standardized on Rodinal.
The concentrate lasts forever, and it is very economical at 1+50, and even 1+25.
A good one-shot, high acutance developer...no extra bottles needed.
Some folks whinge about it not being "fine grain", but that's not an issue for me since I shoot large and medium format.
Besides, I prefer sharp grain over mushy grain.

greg zinselmeier · Jun 3, 2023

IMO, buy dry chemicals. A good scale . Mix as you need. I buy in bulk, it’s cheaper. And more fresh.

brian steinberger · Jun 3, 2023

I would recommend LPD for paper developer. Stuff lasts forever. I haven’t had good luck with multigrade and longevity.

For film I’d recommend ID-11. Lasts a long time. HC-110 or Rodinal would be good too, probably better for very infrequent developing.

Stop bath from ilford and Hypam is what I’ve always used. No problems there.

MCB18 · Jun 3, 2023

Thanks for all the comments and advice!

A few thoughts of my own, in no particular order:

I’m currently using D-76, and I’m fairly confident it died in the bottle, so I’ll have to test it somehow. So I’m not sure it’s really meant for my use case.

I have thought about ordering raw chems, but honestly I have no idea where to start with that. Honestly, there’s almost too much info online, and it’s kind of overwhelming.

I considered Rodinal (and it’s clones) as an option, but I honestly don’t like the look it gives on some films. The film looks almost like sandpaper sometimes! While I don’t mind grain, I don’t want that much grain.

Xtol looks like an interesting option @Sirius Glass, I’ll have to look into it. Although honestly, I know very little about replenishment, so I was kind of avoiding it.

@brian steinberger I found 2 types of LPD, liquid and powder. What’s the best option for someone like me who develops a few prints every couple of months? Seems like longevity is not an issue with it at all. And, could I use it as a reversal first developer, in theory?

Thanks again everyone!

mwdake · Jun 3, 2023

I’ve always used Artcraft for raw chemicals for mixing up various developers.

General Chemistry

Artcraftchemicals

artcraftchemicals.com

Good range with great prices and service.
Formulas for many developers can be found online or look for the Film Developing Cookbook or Darkroom Cookbook by Steve Anchell

Maris · Jun 3, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
I have used XTOL and replenished XTOL for years. The last decade I have been using only replenished XTOL which properly stored can last for years. Why XTOL? You will be glad that you asked!
View attachment 340505

I'll second that. My first XTOL batch ran from 2006 to 2017 and did hundreds of films using my personal replenishment rate of 90ml per film. Eventually it became murky due to accumulated dye and I started a new batch which has worked perfectly to date. If handled appropriately the working stock of XTOL is stored in a bottle that's always full to the top - no air space to prompt oxidation.

A difficulty with one shot developers diluted from stock is that the stock bottle gradually becomes empty with an increasing airspace. Oxidation bites harder as the decreasing volume of stock ages.

brian steinberger · Jun 3, 2023

I use the powder LPD and I think most people do. It’s cheaper and lasts indefinitely until it’s mixed into solution. And once mixed in solution lasts forever too.

Rodinal is not for everyone, so I understand what you’re saying about the grain. HC-110 would be better choice for you. Not familiar with current HC-110. I’ve heard it’s not the same quality as it always was. Might want to research that. In general HC-110 is very similar in look to ID-11/D-76.

Craig · Jun 3, 2023

Replentished Xtol seems to have a very long life, it makes an excellent film developer.

Brad Deputy · Jun 3, 2023

My vote is for XTOL. Replenishment isn't necessary (but it can save even more money) and you can use it one-shot with decent longevity and value.

Being a long D-76 user, nothing was left behind using XTOL. It really brings the high definition to tabular based film emulsions.

One recommendation: skip TMAX developer. I never could tame the grain or overdevelopment without cutting 30% or more from recommended times.

cmacd123 · Jun 3, 2023

one thing to do if mixing stocks like D76 is to store them in a series of FULL bottles, preferably made of Brown Glass. Do leave a small buubble to the top, perhaps 1 cm from the cap. as glass will not expand. a 4oz bottle diluted 1:1 will fill a one reel 35mm tank.

Radost · Jun 3, 2023

Easy
B&W xtol
C41 flexicolor.

Moose22 · Jun 3, 2023

Brad Deputy said:
My vote is for XTOL. Replenishment isn't necessary (but it can save even more money) and you can use it one-shot with decent longevity and value.

We did the math in another thread. It doesn't save money to do replenished over normal xtol, you get about the same number of rolls.

That said, for longevity it can't be beat. And I am pleased with the quality, good grain, good sharpness, easy to use, regardless of full strength, one shot, or replenished. I store the fresh Xtol in wine bags I got from amazon. With no oxygen, xtol in the wine bag keeps far longer than the recommended 6 months, and it's cheap either way, you'll get 70ish rolls of film for your $15.

Anyway, I mainly use xtol replenished (I'm on 70ml per roll right now and mostly use 1+1 times) and it is mindlessly easy and very good.

I also really like pyrocat HD, but I still personally recommend xtol for OP.

Sirius Glass · Jun 3, 2023

MCB18 said:
Thanks for all the comments and advice!

A few thoughts of my own, in no particular order:

I’m currently using D-76, and I’m fairly confident it died in the bottle, so I’ll have to test it somehow. So I’m not sure it’s really meant for my use case.

I have thought about ordering raw chems, but honestly I have no idea where to start with that. Honestly, there’s almost too much info online, and it’s kind of overwhelming.

I considered Rodinal (and it’s clones) as an option, but I honestly don’t like the look it gives on some films. The film looks almost like sandpaper sometimes! While I don’t mind grain, I don’t want that much grain.

Xtol looks like an interesting option @Sirius Glass, I’ll have to look into it. Although honestly, I know very little about replenishment, so I was kind of avoiding it.

@brian steinberger I found 2 types of LPD, liquid and powder. What’s the best option for someone like me who develops a few prints every couple of months? Seems like longevity is not an issue with it at all. And, could I use it as a reversal first developer, in theory?

Thanks again everyone!

XTOL is very forgiving. Replishing is after 5 rolls on adds 70ml/roll to the replenished XTOL storage bottle and then on pouring out the developer, it is poured back in the storage bottle filling to the top to keep air out. The remainder is discarded. Replenishment is the least expensive way to use a developer and I have kept a replenished bottle going for years before I discarded it.

Moose22 said:
We did the math in another thread. It doesn't save money to do replenished over normal xtol, you get about the same number of rolls.

That said, for longevity it can't be beat. And I am pleased with the quality, good grain, good sharpness, easy to use, regardless of full strength, one shot, or replenished. I store the fresh Xtol in wine bags I got from amazon. With no oxygen, xtol in the wine bag keeps far longer than the recommended 6 months, and it's cheap either way, you'll get 70ish rolls of film for your $15.

Anyway, I mainly use xtol replenished (I'm on 70ml per roll right now and mostly use 1+1 times) and it is mindlessly easy and very good.

I also really like pyrocat HD, but I still personally recommend xtol for OP.

However replenished XTOL provides finer grain, better edge sharpness and better tonality than stock XTOL.

Radost · Jun 3, 2023

Xtol 1:1 for BW
Flexicolor for c41

Radost · Jun 3, 2023

Moose22 said:
We did the math in another thread. It doesn't save money to do replenished over normal xtol, you get about the same number of rolls.

That said, for longevity it can't be beat. And I am pleased with the quality, good grain, good sharpness, easy to use, regardless of full strength, one shot, or replenished. I store the fresh Xtol in wine bags I got from amazon. With no oxygen, xtol in the wine bag keeps far longer than the recommended 6 months, and it's cheap either way, you'll get 70ish rolls of film for your $15.

Anyway, I mainly use xtol replenished (I'm on 70ml per roll right now and mostly use 1+1 times) and it is mindlessly easy and very good.

I also really like pyrocat HD, but I still personally recommend xtol for OP.

1:1 I need to put a little extra chems in jobo to match Kodak 100ml per film requirement.
Still great for 120

Moose22 · Jun 3, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
However replenished XTOL provides finer grain, better edge sharpness and better tonality than stock XTOL.

This is debatable. The difference is quite small and, in fact, this has been debated to death.

That said, it is not worse. Still recommend however OP chooses to use it.

Radost said:
1:1 I need to put a little extra chems in jobo to match Kodak 100ml per film requirement.
Still great for 120

Yeah, you are correct. I can understand that. But that's using one shot. Stock is 75 rolls normally, replenished 71ish rolls. If you have to use 100ml you're getting 50 rolls for your $15.

Still, cheap as chips. Still stores well. I still recommend, using any method you chose.

bags27 · Jun 3, 2023

Xtol produces fantastic whites, but I can't seem to bond with it overall. I keep coming back to Pyrocat HD, which, of course, is toxically toward the other end of the scale from Xtol. But I am always so pleased with the rendering.

MCB18 · Jun 4, 2023

B&H is saying “Screw you” and won’t ship LPD dev powder. But shipping the (more expensive) liquid is fine? WTF B&H???

Brad Deputy · Jun 4, 2023

Makes no sense. They will ship the more toxic D-76. Might be worth a call to customer service.

Philippe-Georges · Jun 4, 2023

Maris said:
I'll second that. My first XTOL batch ran from 2006 to 2017 and did hundreds of films using my personal replenishment rate of 90ml per film. Eventually it became murky due to accumulated dye and I started a new batch which has worked perfectly to date. If handled appropriately the working stock of XTOL is stored in a bottle that's always full to the top - no air space to prompt oxidation.

A difficulty with one shot developers diluted from stock is that the stock bottle gradually becomes empty with an increasing airspace. Oxidation bites harder as the decreasing volume of stock ages.

When the level in the stock bottle lowers, then blew some DustOff in it, whose propelling gas is Propane (replacing CFK'S) which is heavier than air/oxygen and it will cover the developer and somewhat prevent oxidation.

MCB18 · Jun 4, 2023

Thinking about getting a couple of these containers for dev and fix. A bit more expensive than wine bags, but very durable and easy to clean. Anyone have experience with them? Anyone have any reason not to use them?

2-1/2 Gallon Cube® Assembled Cubitainer® | U.S. Plastic Corp.

When you choose the Cubitainer® system, you are choosing a package that was built to withstand the rigors of hazardous chemical packaging...

www.usplastic.com

Help with deciding what chemistry is right for me

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